Install a Tremec T56 Magnum in your A-body

-
I've seen your facebook page - really like it, will probably purchase in the near future! Great to go with my suspension and EFI to have a T56 Magnum! Read through the guide a few times as well . Since it seems to me that you're selling only the crossmember kit - which is the most difficult part, IMO, maybe you could help clear up some of my other questions.

For the pilot bearing - is there a special one needed with the Ford T56 Magnum? I know the LS motor ones are smaller than Mopar, but it's hard to find info on the Ford one. Also on the clutch - since I have an A-833 already, is it possible to change only the disk in my Centerforce Dual Friction?

Thanks!

On the clutch, it is possible to just change the disk. In fact on some disks you can just change the center out. Not sure if that's possible on the Centerforce dual friction or not. But the clutch plate is the same, as is the flywheel, the only difference is you need a 26 spline, 1.125" input on the disk.

As for the pilot bearing, I believe the input shaft diameters are the same for the Magnum T56's whether they be for the Ford or LS application. Actually the TKO uses the same pilot bearing as well. Should be this one HURST DRIVELINE CONVERSIONS » Blog Archive ROLLER PILOT BEARING - MOPAR » HURST DRIVELINE CONVERSIONS
 
I don't see how a mechanical clutch is less trouble. The stock z-bars have to be modified for use with the good headers (TTI and Dougs), and even the modified Z-bars barely fit. Any time you have to work in that area it's just another thing that's in the way. And the Z-bars themselves have been known to crack, not to mention the mounting locations on the inner fender/frame. And of course in this particular instance you have to go out of your way to adapt/fabricate a bellhousing that will use a mechanical clutch, because all the off the shelf mopar to T56 bells are for hydraulic clutches. A whole lot of work and no benefit that I see.
This, this post here is another reason.

Hydraulic clutches are pretty darn simple. Seems like the issues that most folks have with them involve not bench bleeding the system before installation, or improperly setting the clearance on the throwout. And the latter is an issue with a mechanical clutch anyway, it's just the process that's different. With a T56 you can even use an OE Viper slave set up, which is a bunch less expensive than the aftermarket stuff out there and is easily adjusted with available shim packs.

Honestly, I think the only reason people don't like hydraulic clutches is because they don't know how to install and set one up properly.
I don't see how a mechanical clutch is less trouble. The stock z-bars have to be modified for use with the good headers (TTI and Dougs), and even the modified Z-bars barely fit. Any time you have to work in that area it's just another thing that's in the way. And the Z-bars themselves have been known to crack, not to mention the mounting locations on the inner fender/frame. And of course in this particular instance you have to go out of your way to adapt/fabricate a bellhousing that will use a mechanical clutch, because all the off the shelf mopar to T56 bells are for hydraulic clutches. A whole lot of work and no benefit that I see.

Hydraulic clutches are pretty darn simple. Seems like the issues that most folks have with them involve not bench bleeding the system before installation, or improperly setting the clearance on the throwout. And the latter is an issue with a mechanical clutch anyway, it's just the process that's different. With a T56 you can even use an OE Viper slave set up, which is a bunch less expensive than the aftermarket stuff out there and is easily adjusted with available shim packs.

Honestly, I think the only reason people don't like hydraulic clutches is because they don't know how to install and set one up properly.
How about this post as a reason.
Oh what a day...
So now he has to strengthen the firewall. How is modifying a bellcrank any more difficult?

Mechanical clutches have decades of proven success in heavy-duty and race applications.

Bashing others mechanical abilities because they don't agree with you? We're better than that here, aren't we?
 
How about this post as a reason.
Oh what a day...
So now he has to strengthen the firewall. How is modifying a bellcrank any more difficult?

Mechanical clutches have decades of proven success in heavy-duty and race applications.

Bashing others mechanical abilities because they don't agree with you? We're better than that here, aren't we?

I don't understand this at all.

The only difference with a hydraulic clutch is how the throwout bearing is moved. That's it. Mechanical linkage vs. hydraulic pressure. The clutch itself can be exactly the same, there's no change necessary in the pressure plate or clutch disk. Clutch engagement, plate pressures, slip, etc. can all be identical to a mechanical clutch. And hydraulic clutches have decades of proven success as well. They've been in high performance production vehicles like Corvette's, Vipers, etc for that long. Heck all of the Viper T56's have always had hydraulic clutches.

And the hydraulic system is no different than the one used for braking. It's the same thing, all of the exact same principles apply. So, if you know how your brakes work, you know how the hydraulic clutch works- there's no additional knowledge or aptitude needed. If anything, the hydraulic clutch system probably has fewer moving parts than most mechanical clutch linkages. And, if set up properly, there's no slop from the interaction between the pins and bushings and pivots that you have in a mechanical system. So, the hydraulic set up can be more precise if correctly installed.

The only possible issue between the two is pedal feel. But, just like your brakes, this can be adjusted. The diameter of the master cylinder, pedal ratio and travel can all be adjusted to tailor the feel of the pedal. Just like the braking system. I don't see anyone converting over to mechanically actuated brakes to get better brake pedal feel. Heck most people seem to want power brakes to make the effort even less, which further reduces feel.

The biggest issue with the hydraulic clutches is the conversion. You have to plan it out, just like you plan out a brake master cylinder change or disk upgrade- you need to figure out what works best with the pedal ratio, feel, and available travel. The firewall reinforcement should be obvious, just look at the brake pedal and master right next to it. Plate, pedal bracket to stiffen the firewall- you need the same thing for a clutch master. And it can be super easy, like this
master 3.jpg
master 2.jpg
master 1.jpg


Just a 1/8" homemade plate with some non-precision holes welded to the pedal bracket (not mine). Or as easy as buying something like this Wilwood Master Cylinder Adapter Brackets 250-3677

Certainly not nearly as complicated as having an precision machined adaptor plate custom made to use a bellhousing not designed for use with a T56 you can have a bell with provisions for mechanical linkage, and then making that mechanical linkage yourself.

Most of the pitfalls covered on this site about hydraulic clutches are installation issues- not bleeding the master cylinder or slave properly, not setting up the pedal ratio/throw correctly, or not setting the clearance on the throwout bearing right. A quick search will show you that those are by far the biggest issues folks have. Some of those are no different than installing a new brake master cylinder (bench bleed, bleed the system), and the rest are usually either being unfamiliar with setting up the throwout clearance for a hydraulic system, or related to it being a conversion/retro fit that requires some planning and tuning because a lot of people do it as a custom installation rather than buying a conversion kit.
 
I don't understand this at all.

The only difference with a hydraulic clutch is how the throwout bearing is moved. That's it. Mechanical linkage vs. hydraulic pressure. The clutch itself can be exactly the same, there's no change necessary in the pressure plate or clutch disk. Clutch engagement, plate pressures, slip, etc. can all be identical to a mechanical clutch. And hydraulic clutches have decades of proven success as well. They've been in high performance production vehicles like Corvette's, Vipers, etc for that long. Heck all of the Viper T56's have always had hydraulic clutches.

And the hydraulic system is no different than the one used for braking. It's the same thing, all of the exact same principles apply. So, if you know how your brakes work, you know how the hydraulic clutch works- there's no additional knowledge or aptitude needed. If anything, the hydraulic clutch system probably has fewer moving parts than most mechanical clutch linkages. And, if set up properly, there's no slop from the interaction between the pins and bushings and pivots that you have in a mechanical system. So, the hydraulic set up can be more precise if correctly installed.

The only possible issue between the two is pedal feel. But, just like your brakes, this can be adjusted. The diameter of the master cylinder, pedal ratio and travel can all be adjusted to tailor the feel of the pedal. Just like the braking system. I don't see anyone converting over to mechanically actuated brakes to get better brake pedal feel. Heck most people seem to want power brakes to make the effort even less, which further reduces feel.

The biggest issue with the hydraulic clutches is the conversion. You have to plan it out, just like you plan out a brake master cylinder change or disk upgrade- you need to figure out what works best with the pedal ratio, feel, and available travel. The firewall reinforcement should be obvious, just look at the brake pedal and master right next to it. Plate, pedal bracket to stiffen the firewall- you need the same thing for a clutch master. And it can be super easy, like this
View attachment 1715128596 View attachment 1715128597 View attachment 1715128598

Just a 1/8" homemade plate with some non-precision holes welded to the pedal bracket (not mine). Or as easy as buying something like this Wilwood Master Cylinder Adapter Brackets 250-3677

Certainly not nearly as complicated as having an precision machined adaptor plate custom made to use a bellhousing not designed for use with a T56 you can have a bell with provisions for mechanical linkage, and then making that mechanical linkage yourself.

Most of the pitfalls covered on this site about hydraulic clutches are installation issues- not bleeding the master cylinder or slave properly, not setting up the pedal ratio/throw correctly, or not setting the clearance on the throwout bearing right. A quick search will show you that those are by far the biggest issues folks have. Some of those are no different than installing a new brake master cylinder (bench bleed, bleed the system), and the rest are usually either being unfamiliar with setting up the throwout clearance for a hydraulic system, or related to it being a conversion/retro fit that requires some planning and tuning because a lot of people do it as a custom installation rather than buying a conversion kit.
We get it already; you prefer hydraulic. Once again, it is a preference and better in your opinion. I'm not the one trying to sway anyone over or bashing others that don't share my opinion.
 
D76976C6-DFCE-4FA9-86C8-B3EA6C46CD3B.jpeg
Hello everyone. I just wanted to send a message out that we have kits in stock now for immediate shipping. We have the design updated for use with any of the T56 MAGNUMS that are offered.
I am not 100% about the OEM swaps compatibility, but I would think everything would work with our kits. Here is the latest design picture. Please let me know if you are interested in purchasing one of our kits. They cost $699 plus shipping.
 
Hello everyone.
Just wanted to let everyone know that my conversion parts are available now. I have a few pictures so you can see what all you get with my "Kit".
With these parts, putting in a T56 Magnum is easier than ever!!! Please let me know if you want one, or 2... or even 3!!!
This conversion has really made my 69 Barracuda a blast to drive.... great gears for acceleration.... plus 2 overdrive gears for highway use. This really is the best update I have ever made to our cars.
Thanks for any and all feedback. Price is $799.00. All orders December and January will get $50 off so that will be $749.00. Thanks for the encouragement.
Todd Johnson

Memphis TN
Todd,
I am putting a TR6060'with a gen three 6.1 into a 72 Demon and would be very interested in your tranny conversion kit.
 
Todd,
I am putting a TR6060'with a gen three 6.1 into a 72 Demon and would be very interested in your tranny conversion kit.
Sounds like a match made in heaven!!!
Our kit is designed for the Tremec T56 Magnum which is the aftermarket 6060
 
Hello everyone.
Just wanted to let everyone know that my conversion parts are available now. I have a few pictures so you can see what all you get with my "Kit".
With these parts, putting in a T56 Magnum is easier than ever!!! Please let me know if you want one, or 2... or even 3!!!
This conversion has really made my 69 Barracuda a blast to drive.... great gears for acceleration.... plus 2 overdrive gears for highway use. This really is the best update I have ever made to our cars.
Thanks for any and all feedback. Price is $799.00. All orders December and January will get $50 off so that will be $749.00. Thanks for the encouragement.
Todd Johnson

Memphis TN
Hey I am in need of this kit for a 1966 A body Dart....Do you have any?
 
Hey I am in need of this kit for a 1966 A body Dart....Do you have any?
I do indeed have them.
$699 plus PayPal fees and shipping.
Let me know where it will be shipped, and what email you use and I can send an invoice when you are ready. Thank you!!
Todd
 
I do indeed have them.
$699 plus PayPal fees and shipping.
Let me know where it will be shipped, and what email you use and I can send an invoice when you are ready. Thank you!!
Todd
So I have a Tremic TKO 5 speed...will this kit work with this trans?
 
So I have a Tremic TKO 5 speed...will this kit work with this trans?
No sir. This kit is built specifically for the Tremec MAGNUM 6 speed.
Sorry, we never developed anything for the TKO transmissions.
Let me know if you need anything, or have any questions. Todd
 
No sir. This kit is built specifically for the Tremec MAGNUM 6 speed.
Sorry, we never developed anything for the TKO transmissions.
Let me know if you need anything, or have any questions. Todd
Thanks anyway... I will keep looking
 
Are all the crossmembers the same? I have an e-body and an a-body. The E has a TKO that I want to replace with a Magnum. My A-body project is getting one too, it's an auto, but I don't know which one is getting the swap first. It would be nice if they were compatible so I could decide later if I buy one now.
 
Are all the crossmembers the same? I have an e-body and an a-body. The E has a TKO that I want to replace with a Magnum. My A-body project is getting one too, it's an auto, but I don't know which one is getting the swap first. It would be nice if they were compatible so I could decide later if I buy one now.

The A and E body cross members are NOT the same. There’s really no way they could be, the tunnel width/height and location of the crossmember with respect to its position on the transmission are different between the A and E body platforms. Remember that the E body uses longer torsion bars, so the cross member is further back on the E’s.
 
Correct... they are all different. No way to make a “universal” one. These are computer designed on autocad and laser cut. I have A, B, and E body kits available. Just let me know what you want.
Thanks for the interest. Check out ToddRon Restorations on Facebook for a detailed installation instruction sheet, as well as pictures. Thanks again! Todd

Are all the crossmembers the same? I have an e-body and an a-body. The E has a TKO that I want to replace with a Magnum. My A-body project is getting one too, it's an auto, but I don't know which one is getting the swap first. It would be nice if they were compatible so I could decide later if I buy one now.
 
Here’s a couple pictures of the E-body crossmember, you can see the differences compared to the A-body version pictured earlier in the thread. The E body upper crossmember has an angle on it to clear the shifter because of where the crossmember lays out on the transmission
7168793A-EEA0-4BD4-A10C-88B39CC43D1C.jpeg
E6CAFC5A-7707-4DFD-97D6-9F5878562F59.jpeg
 
Hey Todd,

I am doing a T5 install... using a kit from SST. Their kit provides a lower crossmember that bolts into the stock holes, but their kit provides no upper crossmember and it has to be cut in order to get the T5 high enough... I was curious if your upper crossmember would work with their lower... any idea?
 
Hey Todd,

I am doing a T5 install... using a kit from SST. Their kit provides a lower crossmember that bolts into the stock holes, but their kit provides no upper crossmember and it has to be cut in order to get the T5 high enough... I was curious if your upper crossmember would work with their lower... any idea?
 
My kit has been specifically designed for the Tremec Magnum. While it would be reasonable to assume my parts would work... I have not done it personally so I could not guarantee it would be useful or usable. I wish I had better news for you. With so many different versions of the Tremec transmissions (especially the T5 and TR6060) I have not been able to include them in any of my product development.
Thank you for your interest. Todd
 
My kit has been specifically designed for the Tremec Magnum. While it would be reasonable to assume my parts would work... I have not done it personally so I could not guarantee it would be useful or usable. I wish I had better news for you. With so many different versions of the Tremec transmissions (especially the T5 and TR6060) I have not been able to include them in any of my product development.
Thank you for your interest. Todd

Thanks for the honest reply Todd. Still trying to figure out all my options, but one thing I'm thinking is maybe I could try your upper crossmember piece and see if it works with my T5... If it doesn't I could either send it back untouched, or try to modify it. Would you be open to selling just the upper? If so how much?

Thanks,

Shane
 
Thanks for the honest reply Todd. Still trying to figure out all my options, but one thing I'm thinking is maybe I could try your upper crossmember piece and see if it works with my T5... If it doesn't I could either send it back untouched, or try to modify it. Would you be open to selling just the upper? If so how much?

Thanks,

Shane
I would be willing to do that.
I don’t know any of your dimensions etc... but both of my parts might work with modification. Shipping is the only concern. If you want to try my setup, $350 for the top, or $699 for the whole thing, plus shipping which typically has run around $50.
Then you pay the return shipping if it doesn’t work and you need to return it to me? That sounds harsh as I write it, but what are your thiughts? If you have any pics of the trans sitting up in the tunnel.... we could even see if one of the other kits would work better. I’m just thinking out loud. Ideas. Thank you for your interest!!
What does the mount area of the T5 look like? Todd
 
I would be willing to do that.
I don’t know any of your dimensions etc... but both of my parts might work with modification. Shipping is the only concern. If you want to try my setup, $350 for the top, or $699 for the whole thing, plus shipping which typically has run around $50.
Then you pay the return shipping if it doesn’t work and you need to return it to me? That sounds harsh as I write it, but what are your thiughts? If you have any pics of the trans sitting up in the tunnel.... we could even see if one of the other kits would work better. I’m just thinking out loud. Ideas. Thank you for your interest!!
What does the mount area of the T5 look like? Todd

Hey Todd, so the T5 kit i have from SST uses the stock bolt holes for their lower crossmember. I'd prefer if I could make it work somehow, just using your upper... After further reading, it sounds like your T56 kit uses the stock holes closest to the tunnel but then re-drill the outer holes, to make narrower... is that correct? If so I think we'd have to weld some longer tabs to the unit to use the stock bolt hole location...

Here are a couple photos with the T5 mocked up in my car, note that I do not have the isolator mount installed in these photos, so the trans will sit higher in the tunnel, which is why I'll have to cut the stock upper...

Let me know if the T56 mount you made would be best or if you have another that would be a better fit...

Thanks,

Shane

Unknown-8.jpeg


Unknown-9.jpeg
 
Hey Shane. Pictures look great!
My A-body kit uses the outer 2 holes, and re-drills the innermost 2 holes. So then you would only need to drill the inner holes of the SST mount to attach to my upper. There is a “crush sleeve” type metal inside the factory torsion bar frame area that would need to be removed, as discussed in my installation kit on our FB page. Have you looked thru those pictures?
I assume once the trans is in the correct location (heightwise) it hits the torsion bar frame are and the floorboard? The good thing is, if you use my top, and fit the floorboard to accommodate my frame support, if you were to ever want to change the trans.to a MAGNUM, the work is already done.
I don’t see any reason why my top part wouldn’t work for you. Todd


Hey Todd, so the T5 kit i have from SST uses the stock bolt holes for their lower crossmember. I'd prefer if I could make it work somehow, just using your upper... After further reading, it sounds like your T56 kit uses the stock holes closest to the tunnel but then re-drill the outer holes, to make narrower... is that correct? If so I think we'd have to weld some longer tabs to the unit to use the stock bolt hole location...

Here are a couple photos with the T5 mocked up in my car, note that I do not have the isolator mount installed in these photos, so the trans will sit higher in the tunnel, which is why I'll have to cut the stock upper...

Let me know if the T56 mount you made would be best or if you have another that would be a better fit...

Thanks,

Shane

View attachment 1715420183

View attachment 1715420184
 
Shane, where is the shifter located in comparison to the torsion bar frame area on the floorboard? My A-body kit is straight up, so as long as your shifter is forward of the support, I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work. Just let me know what you think.
thanks for your interest. Todd

Hey Todd, so the T5 kit i have from SST uses the stock bolt holes for their lower crossmember. I'd prefer if I could make it work somehow, just using your upper... After further reading, it sounds like your T56 kit uses the stock holes closest to the tunnel but then re-drill the outer holes, to make narrower... is that correct? If so I think we'd have to weld some longer tabs to the unit to use the stock bolt hole location...

Here are a couple photos with the T5 mocked up in my car, note that I do not have the isolator mount installed in these photos, so the trans will sit higher in the tunnel, which is why I'll have to cut the stock upper...

Let me know if the T56 mount you made would be best or if you have another that would be a better fit...

Thanks,

Shane

View attachment 1715420183

View attachment 1715420184
 
-
Back
Top