K-Member / Rack & Pinion Steering Suggestions

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always been my observation when it comes to almost any form of motorized racing, it is the drivers talent and size of their balls that make a difference.....not even necessarily in that order. A good car can possibly help.

From what I gather, Blu holds his own, likely a testament to my above statement.

:)
 
AAndrews said:
You stated " The Red Brick was able to hang with a C6 vette, just torsion bars and leaf springs."


I think you are oversimplifying how the Red Brick can stay with a Vette.


" Here's the builder's description of "The Red Brick"

1968 Plymouth Valiant 427 Engine Swap - Mopar Muscle Magazine

Mostly original paint (doors and Dr fender repainted, don't quite match), all steel body, torque boxes, frame connectors, 6 pt (non intrusive) cage, firewall to frame rail bars underhood, XV front chassis (radiator) brace.

Engine, 7.0 liter Small Block dynoed at 519 hp @ 5800, 506 lb/ft @ 4100: 340 resto block, AN connections at oil filter. HV pump, remote filter, 3 QT Accusump mounted behind passenger seat. K1 4.125” stroke crank, K1 rods, JE pistons 10.5 compression. Edelbrock Aluminum heads - Stage 3 ported by Hughes Engines with 2.08 intake valves. Comp roller cam 236/236 at .050 with .545”/.537” lift, Comp solid roller lifters, Comp 1.5 ratio rockers, Milodon road race oil pan, MSD E-Curve distributor. Edelbrock Victor 340 intake ported by Shady Dell, BLP 650 CFM carb. TTI ceramic coated headers, TTI 2.5” X-pipe exhaust with Magnaflow mufflers.

Trans: A-833 with 2.66 first gear in Passon Performance aluminum case. Hurst shifter solid mount. Steel flywheel - McLeod clutch

Rear: 66-7 B-Body housing with 2.94 center section, Dr. Diff clutch type differential. Aluminum driveshaft.

Brakes: Front - Baer 6 piston, 13” two piece rotors Rear—Mustang Cobra rear disc kit from Dr. Diff. Mopar aluminum master cylinder 15/16” piston dia. Wilwood rear pressure valve - adjustable from drivers seat. Carbotech track pads all around as well as street pads for cruising.

Suspension: Front - 1.20 T-bars, 72 K frame seam welded, reinforced with FFI kit, notched for oil pan clearance, boxed for NASCAR-style Speedway Engineering sway bar, FMJ spindles, FFI upper A-arms, Lower arms boxed with AR Eng plates and setup for heim style endlink. Poly lower control arm pivots w/AR Eng retaining plates, FFI C-body tubular tie rods, FFI Stage 3 steering box with PS cooler mounted behind grille. Poly strut rod bushings. Bilstein shocks. Rear- AR Eng front hangers, F-body rear shackles, 340 rear springs with poly on both ends. Adjustable frame mounted rear sway bar .875”. Bilstein shocks. Has new 275/40/17 Falken Azenis 200 tread wear tires on 17x9 Konig wheels on all 4 corners.

Misc: trunk mounted battery, light weight Toyota 60A alternator, custom dash insert with Autometer gauges, Extra-large warning lights for oil press, H2O and volts. Aluminum radiator with SPAL sucker fan – Manual switch and thermostatically controlled. Corbeau seats with 4 pt harnesses. Heater/defrost removed, factory glass all intact, wipers & turn signals function as factory.


It takes a little more than torsion bars and leaf springs. This is a highly modified A-Body. Very very well done by someone who obviously knows suspension systems power trains and race cars.. I would guess its out of the skill realm of 90% of the members of this site. For us who don't and still want a great handling car, the kits offered by HDK and RMS come with the engineering done that performs exceptionally well and a relatively simple install.

I am in no way knocking your knowledge or expertise. I'm sure your car handles very well too.
Click to expand...

I didn't oversimplify anything. Excluding the engine, which we're not really talking about here, there are only a few differences between my car and the Red Brick. The 6 point cage, the Nascar sway bar, and 1.2" bars mostly. There are quite a few components on my car that exceed the capabilities of the parts on the Red Brick. The simple fact is that I've seen the Red Bricks specs before, and they influenced how I built my car (along with a few other builds). So if you want to do this, let's do this.

The Red Brick vs 72Blu's Duster

  • Torque boxes---------------------------------√
  • subframe connectors-------------------------√
  • lower radiator support brace---------------- √
  • firewall to frame rail bars underhood--------√
  • 6 point cage-----------------------------------X
  • A833------------------------------------------T56(2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.80/.63)
  • B-body 8 3/4 housing------------------------√ ('68-70, 4.30 w/ TrueTrac)
  • 13" Baer brakes------------------------------13" Cobra style brakes, DoctorDiff
  • Mustang Cobra rear disks--------------------√ (11.7")
  • 15/16" master--------------------------------√
  • Adjustable pressure valve--------------------√
  • Seam welded/reinforced K frame------------√
  • 1.2" bars---------------------------------------1.12" bars (street car)
  • Nascar sway bar-------------------------------Hellwig #55905 1.125"
  • FMJ spindles-----------------------------------√
  • FFI UCA's---------------------------------------SPC double adjustable UCA's with Delrin bushings
  • Boxed stock LCA's------------------------------QA1 tubular LCA's (~1" additional travel, 8 lbs lighter)
  • Poly LCA bushings------------------------------Delrin LCA bushings
  • FFI SIII steering box (power, 16:1)-----------Flaming River 16:1 manual steering box
  • 11/16" tie rods---------------------------------9/16" tie rods with tubular steel adjusters
  • Poly strut rod bushings (stock strut rods!)----Adjustable strut rods
  • Bilstein shocks-----------------------------------Hotchkis Fox shocks
  • AR front hangers (stock w/ lowering hole)-----√
  • F-body shackles---------------------------------AFCO spring sliders (no lateral slop)
  • 340 springs (110 lb/in rate)--------------------AFCO 120 lb/in springs
  • .875" rear sway bar---------------------------- √
  • battery relocation-------------------------------√
  • Denso alternator--------------------------------√ (175 amp)
  • aluminum radiator w/electric fans-------------√ (26" aluminum radiator with Contour dual electric, dual speed fans 3k/5k cfm).
  • 275/40/17 Falken Azenis 17x9-----------------275/35/18 on 18x9", 295/40/18 on 18x10", Falken Azenis
And honestly, the list I posted right at the beginning pretty much covers everything the Red Brick has suspension wise. The bars are smaller because we're talking about primarily street use. The chassis reinforcement and other things were left out, but, they'd have to be added to make a RMS or HDK car hang with the Red Brick too. For comparison purposes I leave out the stuff you'd have to do either way- brakes, chassis reinforcement, engine, etc. But if you wanted your RMS or HDK equipped car to hang with the Red Brick, you'd have to do all the chassis and engine work too.

Suspension wise, the Red Brick is not an extraordinary set up, it uses more stock parts than my car does. And honestly, that's been my whole point all along. It has a lot of other things going on for sure, but the suspension modifications are pretty basic and straightforward.
 
Last edited:
72bluNblu said:
I didn't oversimplify anything. Excluding the engine, which we're not really talking about here, there are only a few differences between my car and the Red Brick. The 6 point cage, the Nascar sway bar, and 1.2" bars mostly. There are quite a few components on my car that exceed the capabilities of the parts on the Red Brick. The simple fact is that I've seen the Red Bricks specs before, and they influenced how I built my car (along with a few other builds). So if you want to do this, let's do this.

The Red Brick vs 72Blu's Duster

  • Torque boxes---------------------------------√
  • subframe connectors-------------------------√
  • lower radiator support brace---------------- √
  • firewall to frame rail bars underhood--------√
  • 6 point cage-----------------------------------X
  • A833------------------------------------------T56(2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.80/.63)
  • B-body 8 3/4 housing------------------------√ ('68-70, 4.30 w/ TrueTrac)
  • 13" Baer brakes------------------------------13" Cobra style brakes, DoctorDiff
  • Mustang Cobra rear disks--------------------√ (11.7")
  • 15/16" master--------------------------------√
  • Adjustable pressure valve--------------------√
  • Seam welded/reinforced K frame------------√
  • 1.2" bars---------------------------------------1.12" bars (street car)
  • Nascar sway bar-------------------------------Hellwig #55905 1.125"
  • FMJ spindles-----------------------------------√
  • FFI UCA's---------------------------------------SPC double adjustable UCA's with Delrin bushings
  • Boxed stock LCA's------------------------------QA1 tubular LCA's (~1" additional travel, 8 lbs lighter)
  • Poly LCA bushings------------------------------Delrin LCA bushings
  • FFI SIII steering box (power, 16:1)-----------Flaming River 16:1 manual steering box
  • 11/16" tie rods---------------------------------9/16" tie rods with tubular steel adjusters
  • Poly strut rod bushings (stock strut rods!)----Adjustable strut rods
  • Bilstein shocks-----------------------------------Hotchkis Fox shocks
  • AR front hangers (stock w/ lowering hole)-----√
  • F-body shackles---------------------------------AFCO spring sliders (no lateral slop)
  • 340 springs (110 lb/in rate)--------------------AFCO 120 lb/in springs
  • .875" rear sway bar---------------------------- √
  • battery relocation-------------------------------√
  • Denso alternator--------------------------------√ (175 amp)
  • aluminum radiator w/electric fans-------------√ (26" aluminum radiator with Contour dual electric, dual speed fans 3k/5k cfm).
  • 275/40/17 Falken Azenis 17x9-----------------275/35/18 on 18x9", 295/40/18 on 18x10", Falken Azenis
And honestly, the list I posted right at the beginning pretty much covers everything the Red Brick has suspension wise. The bars are smaller because we're talking about primarily street use. The chassis reinforcement and other things were left out, but, they'd have to be added to make a RMS or HDK car hang with the Red Brick too. For comparison purposes I leave out the stuff you'd have to do either way- brakes, chassis reinforcement, engine, etc. But if you wanted your RMS or HDK equipped car to hang with the Red Brick, you'd have to do all the chassis and engine work too.

Suspension wise, the Red Brick is not an extraordinary set up, it uses more stock parts than my car does. And honestly, that's been my whole point all along. It has a lot of other things going on for sure, but the suspension modifications are pretty basic and straightforward.
Click to expand...


WoW!

First of all, before I say anything else, thanks very much for the side by side comparison. Not many people on here take the time to explain their setup as detailed as you and its really appreciated. I will be the first to say that there's a lot I didn't know about modifying Ma Mopar's stock setup. Your car and the Brick's have certainly taken the stock setup to the next level. Never knew about a Nascar swaybar setup!

I wasn't trying to be a dick when I said you were oversimplifying about how the brick could stay with a Vette. I was saying that in my opinion , it takes a lot more than just modifying suspension to beat it. As was stated, the driver is also a big part of the equasion but for the moment we are discussing cars.

I do have an alterior motive for being engaged in this discussion so I am watching/reading intently. My next project is a 69 Barracuda Convertible. I want to build a 69 Formula S Clone but , with a highly modified Aluminum block (If I can find one) Slant 6 with a 6- speed transmission , 3:91 489 Suregrip. This will be a street car with the best handling I can put in it. I have most of the factory Formula S parts from cars I have scrapped including K Member, sway bar (Car was 383-s), torsion bars. I will use US Cartools lower Rad support, torque boxes and frame rail connectors. Considering gussetting K member , boxing lower control arms, possibly Borgeson box if I can't find a solution to install a rack and pinion . (any thoughts on this would be apreciated! ) Also, because its a Convertible, I need to address ridgidity . I've read of using an X-Frame behind the rear seat to tie the car together. It will need something for sure as body flex is bad.. From my searches, no one has done this yet so it will be a unique project. Good power/fuel economy, great visuals and excellent handling. Yes I know I can go with a V-8 but thats not the direction I want to go.
 
72bluNblu said:
I didn't oversimplify anything. Excluding the engine, which we're not really talking about here, there are only a few differences between my car and the Red Brick. The 6 point cage, the Nascar sway bar, and 1.2" bars mostly. There are quite a few components on my car that exceed the capabilities of the parts on the Red Brick. The simple fact is that I've seen the Red Bricks specs before, and they influenced how I built my car (along with a few other builds). So if you want to do this, let's do this.

The Red Brick vs 72Blu's Duster

  • Torque boxes---------------------------------√
  • subframe connectors-------------------------√
  • lower radiator support brace---------------- √
  • firewall to frame rail bars underhood--------√
  • 6 point cage-----------------------------------X
  • A833------------------------------------------T56(2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.80/.63)
  • B-body 8 3/4 housing------------------------√ ('68-70, 4.30 w/ TrueTrac)
  • 13" Baer brakes------------------------------13" Cobra style brakes, DoctorDiff
  • Mustang Cobra rear disks--------------------√ (11.7")
  • 15/16" master--------------------------------√
  • Adjustable pressure valve--------------------√
  • Seam welded/reinforced K frame------------√
  • 1.2" bars---------------------------------------1.12" bars (street car)
  • Nascar sway bar-------------------------------Hellwig #55905 1.125"
  • FMJ spindles-----------------------------------√
  • FFI UCA's---------------------------------------SPC double adjustable UCA's with Delrin bushings
  • Boxed stock LCA's------------------------------QA1 tubular LCA's (~1" additional travel, 8 lbs lighter)
  • Poly LCA bushings------------------------------Delrin LCA bushings
  • FFI SIII steering box (power, 16:1)-----------Flaming River 16:1 manual steering box
  • 11/16" tie rods---------------------------------9/16" tie rods with tubular steel adjusters
  • Poly strut rod bushings (stock strut rods!)----Adjustable strut rods
  • Bilstein shocks-----------------------------------Hotchkis Fox shocks
  • AR front hangers (stock w/ lowering hole)-----√
  • F-body shackles---------------------------------AFCO spring sliders (no lateral slop)
  • 340 springs (110 lb/in rate)--------------------AFCO 120 lb/in springs
  • .875" rear sway bar---------------------------- √
  • battery relocation-------------------------------√
  • Denso alternator--------------------------------√ (175 amp)
  • aluminum radiator w/electric fans-------------√ (26" aluminum radiator with Contour dual electric, dual speed fans 3k/5k cfm).
  • 275/40/17 Falken Azenis 17x9-----------------275/35/18 on 18x9", 295/40/18 on 18x10", Falken Azenis
And honestly, the list I posted right at the beginning pretty much covers everything the Red Brick has suspension wise. The bars are smaller because we're talking about primarily street use. The chassis reinforcement and other things were left out, but, they'd have to be added to make a RMS or HDK car hang with the Red Brick too. For comparison purposes I leave out the stuff you'd have to do either way- brakes, chassis reinforcement, engine, etc. But if you wanted your RMS or HDK equipped car to hang with the Red Brick, you'd have to do all the chassis and engine work too.

Suspension wise, the Red Brick is not an extraordinary set up, it uses more stock parts than my car does. And honestly, that's been my whole point all along. It has a lot of other things going on for sure, but the suspension modifications are pretty basic and straightforward.
Click to expand...

and I'm not trying to be a dick either....but curious. I am sure you have scaled your car, do you care to share the total weight (minus driver) and the front / rear bias?

just to put it out there....my silver Hemi Duster weighs 3185 (no driver) .... 1605 on the front, 1580 on the rear
 
AAndrews said:
WoW!

First of all, before I say anything else, thanks very much for the side by side comparison. Not many people on here take the time to explain their setup as detailed as you and its really appreciated. I will be the first to say that there's a lot I didn't know about modifying Ma Mopar's stock setup. Your car and the Brick's have certainly taken the stock setup to the next level. Never knew about a Nascar swaybar setup!

I wasn't trying to be a dick when I said you were oversimplifying about how the brick could stay with a Vette. I was saying that in my opinion , it takes a lot more than just modifying suspension to beat it. As was stated, the driver is also a big part of the equasion but for the moment we are discussing cars.

I do have an alterior motive for being engaged in this discussion so I am watching/reading intently. My next project is a 69 Barracuda Convertible. I want to build a 69 Formula S Clone but , with a highly modified Aluminum block (If I can find one) Slant 6 with a 6- speed transmission , 3:91 489 Suregrip. This will be a street car with the best handling I can put in it. I have most of the factory Formula S parts from cars I have scrapped including K Member, sway bar (Car was 383-s), torsion bars. I will use US Cartools lower Rad support, torque boxes and frame rail connectors. Considering gussetting K member , boxing lower control arms, possibly Borgeson box if I can't find a solution to install a rack and pinion . (any thoughts on this would be apreciated! ) Also, because its a Convertible, I need to address ridgidity . I've read of using an X-Frame behind the rear seat to tie the car together. It will need something for sure as body flex is bad.. From my searches, no one has done this yet so it will be a unique project. Good power/fuel economy, great visuals and excellent handling. Yes I know I can go with a V-8 but thats not the direction I want to go.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Sorry, I sometimes take some of this stuff a bit too personally off the cuff and then I end up sounding like a dick.

There’s a lot that can be done with the torsion bar set up, especially now with some of the aftermarket parts out there. The driver is always a big deal, but that’s so individual. That’s why I like the TireRack video I posted on the first page, same driver, same track, talking about the Hotchkis Taxi putting down better lap times than a 3 series Beemer. And that’s the car that driver usually drives on that track! Obviously that’s a skilled professional driver, and the track itself makes a difference too. But the torsion bar suspension is very capable. Obviously it’s a different “feel” or experience to drive one of these old girls vs a newer car. Performance wise you can compare numbers but it’s a lot more work to put down the times in an older car. And less skilled drivers will seem more competent in the newer rides.

Sounds like a nice project you’ve got going! The slant is a good engine, if you could find an aluminum block that would definitely help with some of the weight balance.

HemiDenny said:
and I'm not trying to be a dick either....but curious. I am sure you have scaled your car, do you care to share the total weight (minus driver) and the front / rear bias?

just to put it out there....my silver Hemi Duster weighs 3185 (no driver) .... 1605 on the front, 1580 on the rear
Click to expand...

I have not actually scaled my car yet. My primary focus has always been street driving even if I’m set up for autoX style stuff so I haven’t been too worried about what it weighs. I mean, lighter is good but I don’t know that I’d say I’m making a big effort to trim weight. I know by converting it over to the ‘71 bumpers and things I’ve taken a bunch of weight off of it compared to a stock ‘74, but I’ve added some back on for sure with chassis work.

I’m putting a set of ‘71 doors on it too, losing the door bar will drop some more weight and match up my interior. Eventually I want some scales so I can tune the corner weights for better handling. Kinda of trying to build my shop gear as I go, pretty much have all the alignment stuff so scales may be relatively soon.
 
this miight be ueful for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot on aftermarket parts

the aussies went racing with their valiants in the 70s
they did the following to cater for uncapped roads harsh treatement of the cars, and racing... eventually all cars produced had similar mods on the production line

upper arm brackets had 1/4 circle gussets welded in one or two little 90* wedge gussets on the outide of the brackets.
all cars had torque boxes in the chassis regardless of model
all cars from 71 had a strengthening plate welded to the top off the inner wing on the plattue above the shock tower, it had a smooth stud pressed through a hole in it, that passed through the inner wing and through the top of the pressing that makes up the horn on the shock and upper arm support behind the wheel. this was threaded on the lower end and clamped the top of that section to the inner wing reducing flex
they ran v8 torsion bars in six cylinder cars
they had heavy duty spring hangers at the rear, some with 2 front mount positions to tweak under or over stear for different circuits
they used amtrong shocks that came with a range of different valving to cater for short tight and long sweeping curve tracks or street/police/towing
thay ran 16:1 ratio manual steering and manual brakes in both race cars and some police "chasers"
the cars were set up with 1/2 to 3/4 inch clerance between the chassis and the lower bump stop
most of their cars were lighter and the charger was 10 inches shorter and 60s b body width at the rear...
all race focused/ RT style cars ran single pot sliding calipers and anti sway bars.

i think if you get to this point you have a good baseline to work from and have a good basis for any future upgrade spend.... let the baseline dicate what you need.



the cars could corner in a manner that caused so much flex that the hood hit the edges of the fenders. obvioulsy this needs to be addressed.

if they had been allowed to by the race sanctioning bodies i'm sure a front lower radiator mounbt brace would have helped.

The following is an extract of a Chrysler Australia Service Bulletin dated June 1979.

SUBJECT: Loss of Wheel Alignment – Upper Control Arm Reinforcement

MODEL: All Valiant


To overcome problems of loss of wheel alignment mainly experienced with vehicles operated under severe conditions or unsealed roads a running change adding reinforcement plates to the upper control arm brackets was made in late 1978.

In the event that repeat loss of wheel alignment is experienced and fatigue cracking of the front attachment tab of the upper control arm bracket is noticed, on vehicle manufactured prior to the introduction of the reinforcement plate we recommend that the following corrective action is taken.


  1. Remove the upper control arm from the upper control arm bracket (refer page 2-2-9 of the CL Service Manual).

  2. Weld all existing cracks or failed welds on the upper control arm bracket.

  3. Fabricate two reinforcements as shown in illustration below.

  4. Install reinforcement on both sides of the vehicle and weld as shown in illustration below. Clean up welded area and protect against corrosion using zinc rich primer and under body black.

  5. Reinstall upper control arm using new cam bolts and nuts.

  6. Measure and adjust vehicle height and wheel alignment. Note: Correct torque of the cam bolt nuts to 88 Nm (65 lbs./ft.) is important to prevent loss of wheel alignment as the result of movement of the cam bolts. It may be necessary to tighten the cam bolts using normal spanner then raise the wheels clear off the ground to provide clearance for the application of the torque wrench.



Dave

Service bulletine 1978 upper arm mount.png
 
Last edited:
Dave999 said:
this miight be ueful for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot on aftermarket parts

the aussies went racing with their valiants in the 70s
they did the following to cater for uncapped roads harsh treatement of the cars, and racing... eventually all cars produced had similar mods on the production line

upper arm brackets had 1/4 circle gussets welded in one or two little 90* wedge gussets on the outide of the brackets.
all cars had torque boxes in the chassis regardless of model
all cars from 71 had a strengthening plate welded to the top off the inner wing on the plattue above the shock tower, it had a smooth stud pressed through a hole in it, that passed through the inner wing and through the top of the pressing that makes up the horn on the shock and upper arm support behind the wheel. this was threaded on the lower end and clamped the top of that section to the inner wing reducing flex
they ran v8 torsion bars in six cylinder cars
they had heavy duty spring hangers at the rear, some with 2 front mount positions to tweak under or over stear for different circuits
they used amtrong shocks that came with a range of different valving to cater for short tight and long sweeping curve tracks or street/police/towing
thay ran 16:1 ratio manual steering and manual brakes in both race cars and some police "chasers"
the cars were set up with 1/2 to 3/4 inch clerance between the chassis and the lower bump stop
most of their cars were lighter and the charger was 10 inches shorter and 60s b body width at the rear...
all race focused/ RT style cars ran single pot sliding calipers and anti sway bars.

i think if you get to this point you have a good baseline to work from and have a good basis for any future upgrade spend.... let the baseline dicate what you need.



the cars could corner in a manner that caused so much flex that the hood hit the edges of the fenders. obvioulsy this needs to be addressed.

if they had been allowed to by the race sanctioning bodies i'm sure a front lower radiator mounbt brace would have helped.

The following is an extract of a Chrysler Australia Service Bulletin dated June 1979.

SUBJECT: Loss of Wheel Alignment – Upper Control Arm Reinforcement

MODEL: All Valiant


To overcome problems of loss of wheel alignment mainly experienced with vehicles operated under severe conditions or unsealed roads a running change adding reinforcement plates to the upper control arm brackets was made in late 1978.

In the event that repeat loss of wheel alignment is experienced and fatigue cracking of the front attachment tab of the upper control arm bracket is noticed, on vehicle manufactured prior to the introduction of the reinforcement plate we recommend that the following corrective action is taken.


  1. Remove the upper control arm from the upper control arm bracket (refer page 2-2-9 of the CL Service Manual).

  2. Weld all existing cracks or failed welds on the upper control arm bracket.

  3. Fabricate two reinforcements as shown in illustration below.

  4. Install reinforcement on both sides of the vehicle and weld as shown in illustration below. Clean up welded area and protect against corrosion using zinc rich primer and under body black.

  5. Reinstall upper control arm using new cam bolts and nuts.

  6. Measure and adjust vehicle height and wheel alignment. Note: Correct torque of the cam bolt nuts to 88 Nm (65 lbs./ft.) is important to prevent loss of wheel alignment as the result of movement of the cam bolts. It may be necessary to tighten the cam bolts using normal spanner then raise the wheels clear off the ground to provide clearance for the application of the torque wrench.



Dave

View attachment 1715944300
Click to expand...

My 68 340 Barracuda and 68 Dart Convertible had cracks there that were repaired. When I noticed the cracks in the late 90's, there were A-bodies still in junkyards around here. I saw a few of them with cracks there too.

you need to look real close and Brillo pad road grime and dirt away to see.
 
Last edited:
HemiDenny said:
and I'm not trying to be a dick either....but curious. I am sure you have scaled your car, do you care to share the total weight (minus driver) and the front / rear bias?

just to put it out there....my silver Hemi Duster weighs 3185 (no driver) .... 1605 on the front, 1580 on the rear
Click to expand...

1st pic: 68 Hemi Dart Auto 8 3/4, S/S heavy battery in trunk, with stock K-member = 3209 (no driver)... 1789 front, 1421 rear
2nd pic: 68 Hemi Barracuda 4spd Dana, S/S heavy battery in trunk, with stock K-member = 3249 (no driver)... 1799 front, 1450 rear

51d980e3-14eb-49a9-996c-fa4c523bd110-jpeg.jpg
 
Last edited:
Dave999 said:
this miight be ueful for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot on aftermarket parts

the aussies went racing with their valiants in the 70s
they did the following to cater for uncapped roads harsh treatement of the cars, and racing... eventually all cars produced had similar mods on the production line

upper arm brackets had 1/4 circle gussets welded in one or two little 90* wedge gussets on the outide of the brackets.
all cars had torque boxes in the chassis regardless of model
all cars from 71 had a strengthening plate welded to the top off the inner wing on the plattue above the shock tower, it had a smooth stud pressed through a hole in it, that passed through the inner wing and through the top of the pressing that makes up the horn on the shock and upper arm support behind the wheel. this was threaded on the lower end and clamped the top of that section to the inner wing reducing flex
they ran v8 torsion bars in six cylinder cars
they had heavy duty spring hangers at the rear, some with 2 front mount positions to tweak under or over stear for different circuits
they used amtrong shocks that came with a range of different valving to cater for short tight and long sweeping curve tracks or street/police/towing
thay ran 16:1 ratio manual steering and manual brakes in both race cars and some police "chasers"
the cars were set up with 1/2 to 3/4 inch clerance between the chassis and the lower bump stop
most of their cars were lighter and the charger was 10 inches shorter and 60s b body width at the rear...
all race focused/ RT style cars ran single pot sliding calipers and anti sway bars.

i think if you get to this point you have a good baseline to work from and have a good basis for any future upgrade spend.... let the baseline dicate what you need.



the cars could corner in a manner that caused so much flex that the hood hit the edges of the fenders. obvioulsy this needs to be addressed.

if they had been allowed to by the race sanctioning bodies i'm sure a front lower radiator mounbt brace would have helped.

The following is an extract of a Chrysler Australia Service Bulletin dated June 1979.

SUBJECT: Loss of Wheel Alignment – Upper Control Arm Reinforcement

MODEL: All Valiant


To overcome problems of loss of wheel alignment mainly experienced with vehicles operated under severe conditions or unsealed roads a running change adding reinforcement plates to the upper control arm brackets was made in late 1978.

In the event that repeat loss of wheel alignment is experienced and fatigue cracking of the front attachment tab of the upper control arm bracket is noticed, on vehicle manufactured prior to the introduction of the reinforcement plate we recommend that the following corrective action is taken.


  1. Remove the upper control arm from the upper control arm bracket (refer page 2-2-9 of the CL Service Manual).

  2. Weld all existing cracks or failed welds on the upper control arm bracket.

  3. Fabricate two reinforcements as shown in illustration below.

  4. Install reinforcement on both sides of the vehicle and weld as shown in illustration below. Clean up welded area and protect against corrosion using zinc rich primer and under body black.

  5. Reinstall upper control arm using new cam bolts and nuts.

  6. Measure and adjust vehicle height and wheel alignment. Note: Correct torque of the cam bolt nuts to 88 Nm (65 lbs./ft.) is important to prevent loss of wheel alignment as the result of movement of the cam bolts. It may be necessary to tighten the cam bolts using normal spanner then raise the wheels clear off the ground to provide clearance for the application of the torque wrench.



Dave

View attachment 1715944300
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info!

There’s a US version of that TSB I’ve posted before, although I’ve only ever seen a few pictures of cracks there. I didn’t add tabs to mine but I did go over the factory welds there in a few places.

On the racing Valiants, do you have any pictures of the inner wing support?


autoxcuda said:
1st pic: 68 Hemi Dart Auto 8 3/4 with stock K-member = 3209 (no driver)... 1789 front, 1421 rear
2nd pic: 68 Hemi Barracuda 4spd Dana with stock K-member = 3249 (no driver)... 1799 front, 1450 rear

View attachment 1715944331
Click to expand...

Thanks for those! I have a info on a Duster that was weighed similarly. I’m away from my computer for a bit not sure I can find it. I’ll post it here again if I do.
 
72bluNblu said:
Thanks for those! I have a info on a Duster that was weighed similarly. I’m away from my computer for a bit not sure I can find it. I’ll post it here again if I do.
Click to expand...

Tom weighed his purple Valiant. Last time I talked with him we discussed the weight of my Valiant in comparison. I was thinking I would do a fiberglass hood and bumpers. He advised against removing the steel rear bumper and just lightening up the nose. He did not have as much chassis stiffening as I am going to have but our Valiants should be very comparable. His numbers are somewhere in his old thread.
 
go-fish said:
Tom weighed his purple Valiant. Last time I talked with him we discussed the weight of my Valiant in comparison. I was thinking I would do a fiberglass hood and bumpers. He advised against removing the steel rear bumper and just lightening up the nose. He did not have as much chassis stiffening as I am going to have but our Valiants should be very comparable. His numbers are somewhere in his old thread.
Click to expand...

Seems like this pre 70 A-bodies are light in back. My 68 Barracuda, coupe, 8 3/4, weighs only 1371 in rear without spare tire and battery in front.

FYI: the huge Super Stock battery and hold down assy is easy an 50 lbs on the rear those Hemi Dart and Barracuda's.
 
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aluminum engine....block and heads together are 265 lb lighter over cast. Battery / donut spare (ballast) in trunk. Front axle centerline moved forward 1-1/4" , rear axle moved forward 1-1/2", no roll bar, front tied to rear frame rails / 4-bar / back half.....a stocker.
 
HemiDenny said:
aluminum engine....block and heads together are 265 lb lighter over cast. Battery / donut spare (ballast) in trunk. Front axle centerline moved forward 1-1/4" , rear axle moved forward 1-1/2", no roll bar, front tied to rear frame rails / 4-bar / back half.....a stocker.
Click to expand...

Very cool! Lots of tricks there you don't catch by casually walking by.

Is it manual steering too?
 
72bluNblu said:
Thanks for that info!

On the racing Valiants, do you have any pictures of the inner wing support?
Click to expand...

you can see it in this one

this is mine and on this side is standard
on the other side the stud was snapped, and i never reailsed for a few years after purchase, so the flat head was drilled through and a large bolt with nylock under the wing was used.... just fixing that made a noticable difference.

just doing that and adding the brake bias you can see lower left made huge improvments to sprited steert driving. feels solid and the brakes work... :)

the plate bends over the edge, maybe 1/4 of an inch which will add some rigidity to the panel as well. the lot may be welded or brazed on... hard to tell....the smooth studs i presume are similar to wheel studs with a spline.... finding a replacment was, impossible at the time, i never thought Ahhhh wheel stud, and i had no idea how to get the remains of the old one out.... it was 20 years ago and i was a young man who didn't really think about orginality and the potential future value of the car he was drilling holes in :0 . thinking about it today a big hammer and drift and replacment with a wheel stud would actually work provided the spline section aint too long.

20210613_125536.jpg
 
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autoxcuda said:
Very cool! Lots of tricks there you don't catch by casually walking by.

Is it manual steering too?
Click to expand...

originally built with a manual, converted to the power rack / compact pump over this past winter. Goes well with the A/C.... and Gear Vendor

20220523_142048 (1).jpg
 
HemiDenny said:
originally built with a manual, converted to the power rack / compact pump over this past winter. Goes well with the A/C.... and Gear Vendor

View attachment 1715944837
Click to expand...

I didnt read all these posts ''not that interested'', but in my case the j bars are in the way in the engine compartment , when working on it .
If I had to do it over, and was interested, I`d do the fenderwell supports !
 
Dave999 said:
you can see it in this one

this is mine and on this side is standard
on the other side the stud was snapped, and i never reailsed for a few years after purchase, so the flat head was drilled through and a large bolt with nylock under the wing was used.... just fixing that made a noticable difference.

just doing that and adding the brake bias you can see lower left made huge improvments to sprited steert driving. feels solid and the brakes work... :)

the plate bends over the edge, maybe 1/4 of an inch which will add some rigidity to the panel as well. the lot may be welded or brazed on... hard to tell....the smooth studs i presume are similar to wheel studs with a spline.... finding a replacment was, impossible at the time, i never thought Ahhhh wheel stud, and i had no idea how to get the remains of the old one out.... it was 20 years ago and i was a young man who didn't really think about orginality and the potential future value of the car he was drilling holes in :0 . thinking about it today a big hammer and drift and replacment with a wheel stud would actually work provided the spline section aint too long.

View attachment 1715944807
Click to expand...

Nice! Thanks for posting that. It’s pretty amazing what some extra sheet metal in the right place can do to reinforce a unibody chassis!
 
famous bob said:
I didnt read all these posts ''not that interested'', but in my case the j bars are in the way in the engine compartment , when working on it .
If I had to do it over, and was interested, I`d do the fenderwell supports !
Click to expand...

Careful with the fenderwell supports with lowered cars or large diameter front tires. There may be interference when the inside wheel is turned lock to lock.
 
autoxcuda said:
Careful with the fenderwell supports with lowered cars or large diameter front tires. There may be interference when the inside wheel is turned lock to lock.
Click to expand...

another advantage of the HDK upper shock mounts / support hoops.....no interference with wide tires. While I only know of one FABO member that utilized them for his OEM shocks, I have often considered a small design change in the upper mount to accommodate strictly an OEM shock with no coil over mount.

All it takes is interest....and a market (buyers).

wish I was in my 30's again....at 67 I probably should not be "ramping up"
 
HemiDenny said:
another advantage of the HDK upper shock mounts / support hoops.....no interference with wide tires. While I only know of one FABO member that utilized them for his OEM shocks, I have often considered a small design change in the upper mount to accommodate strictly an OEM shock with no coil over mount.

All it takes is interest....and a market (buyers).

wish I was in my 30's again....at 67 I probably should not be "ramping up"
Click to expand...

LOL , wait till ur 75 and try to get inthused about change
 
HemiDenny said:
another advantage of the HDK upper shock mounts / support hoops.....no interference with wide tires. While I only know of one FABO member that utilized them for his OEM shocks, I have often considered a small design change in the upper mount to accommodate strictly an OEM shock with no coil over mount.

All it takes is interest....and a market (buyers).

wish I was in my 30's again....at 67 I probably should not be "ramping up"
Click to expand...


From the projects I've seen you involved with on here, doesn't look like you are ready for the glue factory yet !!
LOL !!

Keep on keepin on....
 
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