Lunati Hydraulic FT Cam users..........
- Thread starter 318willrun
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j par
Well-hung Member
I looked at that Cam and it made me want to take a nap....
j par
Well-hung Member
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PRH
Well-Known Member
Without changing anything else, I’d say that’s a tall order.
None of parts work alone...... they all interact with the rest of the car.
A cam that could ultimately be worth .25...... with different gears and converter...... might not be worth anything without those other changes.
And, the cam that works with the stock converter and 2.94’s(like the one in the motor now), could easily end up being something that’s holding you back when your looking for a way to get those last couple of tenths.
I’m not the master of the ultra mild combo.
When I’m working to get a combo to a certain ET goal...... I think of it as the entire combo...... not the individual pieces.
And then I like to take a pretty good swing at it.
The cam/converter/carb/gears really need to all be on the same page.
I’ll add this...... I’d do the gears/sure grip/converter all at once...... before the cam.
When my dad was racing his Córdoba, there were a few steps we made that went backwards....... until the other items needed to make the current change work........ got put into the car.
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Yes, and it's the cam that just ran 13.13. What cam would be enough of an upgrade to get me 2.5 tenths but be as mild as we can get it?
which is kind of my point. We all know a big, aggressive cam backed by 4.56's and a 8" converter would rock the ship, and it's also everything I don't want. So, with many saying I need a solid cam and like J par just posted "my current cam makes him want to take a nap", nobody really knows if even the milder Lunati 702 would get me the gain I want for my car. Without knowing the answer, how can anyone "know" it has to be a solid cam? Only that they "make more power" - but how much power? Do I need that extra 80 hp they talked about in the article to get my 2.5 tenths?? If so, I'm big doo doo... lol
Rocket Science is what you need, I tell you, ROCKET SCIENCE !!!
PRH
Well-Known Member
Here’s the way I see it right now.......
The car is not currently at a point where doing only a cam swap........ with zero other changes........is going to pick up .25 in the 1/4.
I’d put in as much gear as you think you can stand, and a sure grip, and the drag radials....... some sort of converter..... and then go back to the track and reevaluate how much ET you really need out of a cam.
Don’t be surprised if that number is more than .25
What’s the ultimate goal? 12.30?
It’s your experiment...... we’re just along for the ride.
The car is not currently at a point where doing only a cam swap........ with zero other changes........is going to pick up .25 in the 1/4.
I’d put in as much gear as you think you can stand, and a sure grip, and the drag radials....... some sort of converter..... and then go back to the track and reevaluate how much ET you really need out of a cam.
Don’t be surprised if that number is more than .25
What’s the ultimate goal? 12.30?
It’s your experiment...... we’re just along for the ride.
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port the fricking SM head and go run a 12 flat. Put the solid cam in there and gain another 80 horse over the hydraulic. lol
All I can say is OH MY !
All I can say is OH MY !
Anything in 12.3's is the goal. I may very well start with gears. I would like to start with 3.23's and see what that does. I won't go over 3.55's, but I would rather 3.23's. Trust me, I've ran 4.30's on the street in my past and I'll sell the car before I go back to anything of that sort. Looking at 9.5" converters from a good builder like PTC.
Myself, I wouldn't even think of using or needing a solid cam for a mid 12 street car.
But then again you have the ROCKET SCIENCE. lol
But then again you have the ROCKET SCIENCE. lol
yeah, just shooting for minor changes to get the car a little faster. Not trying to drop from 13.3's to 10.3's. If so, I'd just buy the Nova and be all done by Saturday
PRH
Well-Known Member
I did a few upgrades to a 360 about a year ago.
This was a rebuilt motor with decent parts in it already, and I never even pulled the pan off it.
The two complaints were...... it wasn’t as fast as they wanted, and the lifters were noisy.
Well.... 3. It didn’t want to go over 52-5300 rpm.
So I pulled the heads off, checked them over, flowed one, and touched up the valve job.
I checked the chamber volume, deck height, etc..... and calculated the cr.
I milled the heads some and ended up with 9.7:1(was like 9.2).
Took out the hyd cam, put in a solid.
Ran on dyno mainly to break in the cam and make sure the Ede 750 carb was working okay.
I tweaked the calibration slightly, but it was actually pretty close as it was.
They put it back in the car.
Fuel system is suspect(mechanical pump, factory lines and pick up), so they get a new hp pump and 3/8” line.
After a few teething pains are sorted out....... it’s about 1 second quicker than it was.
Based on the speed difference in the 1/4 it’s up about 50hp.
It still doesn’t have the right gears in the car to make full use of the new power band.
This was a rebuilt motor with decent parts in it already, and I never even pulled the pan off it.
The two complaints were...... it wasn’t as fast as they wanted, and the lifters were noisy.
Well.... 3. It didn’t want to go over 52-5300 rpm.
So I pulled the heads off, checked them over, flowed one, and touched up the valve job.
I checked the chamber volume, deck height, etc..... and calculated the cr.
I milled the heads some and ended up with 9.7:1(was like 9.2).
Took out the hyd cam, put in a solid.
Ran on dyno mainly to break in the cam and make sure the Ede 750 carb was working okay.
I tweaked the calibration slightly, but it was actually pretty close as it was.
They put it back in the car.
Fuel system is suspect(mechanical pump, factory lines and pick up), so they get a new hp pump and 3/8” line.
After a few teething pains are sorted out....... it’s about 1 second quicker than it was.
Based on the speed difference in the 1/4 it’s up about 50hp.
It still doesn’t have the right gears in the car to make full use of the new power band.
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PRH
Well-Known Member
I didn’t think the heads got you a full .25.
Am I remembering that wrong?
(Very possible)
Am I remembering that wrong?
(Very possible)
In a 440 at 5900. And here we are talking about a small block that may shift at 5600. So, again, how is that relevant? Oh, and the cam he's using will not take full advantage of those aluminum heads anyway. His peak power will likely be below 5,900 with that set up.
And it's a single article. One. One engine, only two different cams with their respective lifters. How many Hot Rod articles are total BS? More than a few. But this one is the holy grail for some reason. Even though it's comparing a 440 with more compression and larger cams than what 318willrun has.
And if you want to treat that single article as the end all be all, it still shows that below 5600 it's not going to make a lick of difference. Which means in this application, it's probably not going to matter one bit, or very little at best.
This is why I stopped listening to "drag race guys". Everything they do is based around the peak HP. Which makes most of their advice pretty much useless for a street car, because it's at an RPM you never see on the street. Meanwhile, your car is a pain in the *** to drive at everything other than peak, because you sold out reliability and driveability for that peak number that you might see once or twice a year.
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PRH
Well-Known Member
Yeh, I’m probably out to lunch.
No way a small block with aluminum heads, headers, aftermarket camshaft, and aftermarket intake and carb could ever make power to 5900.
But...... there was that 30hp gain at 5300 too........ hmmmm.
Bahhhh!!! Who needs it.
Right...... solid cams aren’t reliable and are always meant for high rpm screamers.
Like slant 6’s ...... model A’s...... Farmall tractors.
No way a small block with aluminum heads, headers, aftermarket camshaft, and aftermarket intake and carb could ever make power to 5900.
But...... there was that 30hp gain at 5300 too........ hmmmm.
Bahhhh!!! Who needs it.
Right...... solid cams aren’t reliable and are always meant for high rpm screamers.
Like slant 6’s ...... model A’s...... Farmall tractors.
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Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
on the nova
what"s the front suspension
terrible bump steer
pull the front wheels or one of them up and you have no way of knowing which way it's going to dart
don't kill yourself (same with falcon/ mustang except Shelby who fixed by relocating the arms)
(I had a 66 327 FI 2 dr sedan with 4 speed put in the kit from Global West)
body roll changed your direction, like on a fast on ramp you could find yourself changing lanes
RRR rhodes would work in that low comp motor
solid cam can help more than the change in max hp
lifters
get the ones Isky and Crower sell
hft rhodes or crower lube saver lifters
on that crane cam
crane has some grinds that would give you an improvenent but that is not one of them- did you understand the specs?
260 crane is about a 252-256 in lunati/howard/ comp duration which would have 254-270 lift for best area under the curve
what does the crane manage to get? (what does a 252-256 comp get?)
compare the .200 lift durations and see how much power you would be leaving on the table
btw Summit specs the same way Crane does
'
what"s the front suspension
terrible bump steer
pull the front wheels or one of them up and you have no way of knowing which way it's going to dart
don't kill yourself (same with falcon/ mustang except Shelby who fixed by relocating the arms)
(I had a 66 327 FI 2 dr sedan with 4 speed put in the kit from Global West)
body roll changed your direction, like on a fast on ramp you could find yourself changing lanes
RRR rhodes would work in that low comp motor
solid cam can help more than the change in max hp
lifters
get the ones Isky and Crower sell
hft rhodes or crower lube saver lifters
on that crane cam
crane has some grinds that would give you an improvenent but that is not one of them- did you understand the specs?
260 crane is about a 252-256 in lunati/howard/ comp duration which would have 254-270 lift for best area under the curve
what does the crane manage to get? (what does a 252-256 comp get?)
compare the .200 lift durations and see how much power you would be leaving on the table
btw Summit specs the same way Crane does
'
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I second the Rhoads lifters and a tad hotter cam
PRH
Well-Known Member
PRH
Well-Known Member
that crane cam I listed is the one in the engine now
j par
Well-hung Member
Exactly where did he say it was the end-all? It was just a small example to help make a point... I believe you're the one taking this small example into the next stratosphere as the end-all and then making a whole rant about it...
I wonder why they even bothered putting adjustable rockers and solid lifters in 273s?.. my wife never complain in her 66 barracuda...
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j par
Well-hung Member
I'm sure this will be denied to the ends of the Earth.... If there is one good reason it's bragging rights! LOL there's some jack wheel here on the Forum with the slowest stroker on the internet that posted a 12-3 timeslip last year... And he has put 9k into the motor...(hey if 318 can add a thousand every time he tells the story so can I LOL...)
Now if he can get this stock 360 with the absolute smallest hydraulic cam possible to just make the grade... He will have all his you boob cronies in the palm of his hands when he tells the story of how he build a motor with minimal pieces that beat the slowest stroker on the internet....
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