Need some help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    Lol. I wrote that down wrong. Yes, it is .063". Torqued the gasket in place. Gap at end of intake and china wall is .055".
     
  2. sireland67

    sireland67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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  3. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    OK, that makes a bit more sense LOL. What is the gasket thickness by itself? It looks like you have a .002" variation in compressed thickness across all your measurement; that seems to be a probable source of slow leakage at the larger thickness. Was the oil leakage worse at the passenger's side rear and driver's side front? If so, then some extra torque on those ends might help even the gaps, but I am not sure you can torque it enough. It seems like passenger side front and driver side rear are high and the opposite corners are low. Some gasket sealer is going to be needed IMO help seal that up.

    BTW, when you drop the intake onto the heads with gaskets, how do the bolt holes in the intake line up with those in the heads? Are they well centered, or offset?

    And I don't know how significant it is, but your china wall-to-intake gap is much smaller that what we had with Edelbrock heads and Performer RPM intake.
     
  4. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    Intake gaskets are .060" thick. All of them leak pretty bad. The bolts are toward the bottom of the intake holes. I had to have the intake milled just to get it to sit in there to bolt it up.
     
  5. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    Well, if your measurements are all accurate, why would the solder compress down less than the gasket thickness at all points? That seems to be a guaranteed leak everywhere....oh, that is what you are having! Something seems to be hanging up the intake and preventing it from settling down against the gaskets; perhaps the bolts? Almost as if the intake was machined too much.

    Sounds like thicker gaskets have to be part of the solution so that the bolt pressure is going against the gaskets and not whatever seems to be hanging the intake up. It seems unlikely for sealer to close up .002" to .004". Wish I could help you with a thicker gasket model number....
     
  6. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    I agree with the idea that for some reason the intake is not dropping down. With that much room at the china walls, it should drop in nicely, and with so little variation in clearance from top to bottom it should seal, and with the bolts being at the bottom of the intake holes it should migrate nicely into place. I seem to remember you saying that you had pulled the roll-pins out of the china walls, so something seems very odd here.
    I suppose, if you take the gaskets out, and drop the intake into the valley, if it was hanging up on something, it would rock on that something, Or slide sideways on that something?I've never had that happen to me.But I seem to recall you saying something about sliding in a much earlier post. Sliding should not occur unless there is no room at the china wall and the intake is sitting up too high(which your bolt-alignment sorta contradicts), nor should rocking of any kind.Either of these events should point to the problem.
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
     
  7. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    I will be doing some more investigating later today and report back.
     
  8. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    I'd set the intake on the gaskets and look at all the bolt holes again. If the bolt holes are very close to the top sides of the holes in the intake, then when the bolts draw down the intake, it may just be pulling down against the bolt shanks and not dropping any further. But that is the opposite of what you reported in post 104.

    Here is a much thicker intake gasket PN, BTW, but that might be too thick:
    http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=296378
     
  9. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    deleted by me.
     
  10. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    deleted by me.
     

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  11. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    disregard this picture
     

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  12. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm.....does not compute! It seems like the only way to get a valid measurement like this is to get rid of the head gasket tabs; any small difference in the tab heights is going to throw these measurements off. If you are going to get any good checks with this method, then I would trim off the head gasket tabs. The intake has to sit perfectly flush to the china wall all across on both ends. (And the tabs don't do anything anyhow if you are using RTV at the ends.) Did you check the gaps front and rear with a feeler gauge?

    (Of course, this method assumes the china walls front and rear are of equal height. If something is goofed up front wall to rear wall, then this won't work.)

    If the variation is this bad front to rear, you ought to be able to set the intake on the gaskets and see an obvious larger gap in the rear. I'd be using a mirror to check the back gaps.
     
  13. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    If you do not want to trim off the head gasket tabs, here is another way to make this measurement valid. Get some flat stock aluminum or steel or lexan sheet (anything hard an of consistent thickness) 1/16" thick and cut some pieces to put on top of the china walls front and rear. This will 'set' the intake on even shims above the china wall, and make the intake flat to the china wall ends. Then slip it to one side and see if there is that same large taper in the gap on the other side.

    But again, this method assumes that the chain wall heights are level front to rear, and relative to the head surfaces on the block. If the block has been surfaced crooked , or if the china wall top surfaces were never even to start with, then this method is going to show the intake crooked to the heads regardless. Ultimately we don't care if the china wall heights are even, as those gaps are being filled by sealant or end gaskets. What we do care about is that the heads are parallel front to rear. Making checks with the gaskets in place and seeing if everything is even front to rear and side to side is what counts.
     
  14. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    Headed back now to do more checking. Thanks.
     
  15. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    Here is the sliding thing,again.
    When things are right, this cannot be done. Something is keeping the manifold from dropping into the valley. Get rid of those tabs,if you have to, until the intake drops down tight to the heads or runs out of room on the china walls..
     
  16. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    Got rid of the tabs. Intake sits nice and flush to the heads now. I put the intake back on and is sealed up once more. Depending on the weather I may be able to fire it up tomorrow. If not tomorrow it will be as soon as the weather clears. I will report back then.
     
  17. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    Wahooooooooooo!
     
  18. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    Jaime and I spent some time on the phone while he test fitted the intake and he measured and shifted the intake around. From his descriptions, it now sounds like there is about .0015" gap at the top of each side of the intake when set down against the heads, even across the top, and with no gap at the bottom (by slipping a feeler gauge down from the top). Sooo, with a little sealer and some careful torquing in 3 steps, I'm thinking this ought to seal down pretty well.

    The tabs may have been the issue all along.... on to the next step!
     
  19. challenger57

    challenger57 cuda57

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    Did you happen to put new pcv gromets in your valve covers? Were the gromets a complete open hole or did they look like a plug. When I did my 400 I put new gromets in new valve covers and the bottom of the gromets had to be cut open for ventilation. If you can not suck out the pressure through the pvc it WILL build up enough pressure to blow oil out the gaskets and excessive pressure will build up in the radiator. I know this from previous experience.
     
  20. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    Holes are in the grommets.
     
  21. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    I am just about at the end of my rope with this. I don't know what else to do. I have put around 60 miles or so on this engine as suggested. I pull in the garage after this last trip and pull a couple spark plugs and I look into one of the cylinders and I can see where oil has dripped onto the top of the piston. I know it came from the intake valve because of the previous inspections I have done when I pulled the intake before. This time I put Permatex RTV around all the ports just for the heck of it. I have not pulled the intake yet, but will, just to see.
     
  22. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    Is this the heads where the springs cups were installed and the machinist put in the new valve stem seals that looked to be a white color? Could be teflon seals; they might not be staying down on the guides right or not the right size. I'd inspect the seals looking through the springs from the side and then pull one or 2 to inspect the seals. If these are the standard Edelbrock springs, they can be pulled while on the car with the right tool.
     
  23. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    I will have to pull the valve covers to get the intake off, so while I am doing that I will look at the valve seals. The springs are Lunati brand.
     
  24. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    OK, at some point, it might be a good idea to talk to the machinist about all of this.
     
  25. duster360

    duster360 Well-Known Member

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    Going to call him today.
     
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