Ok, What have I done now... (904 problem?)

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Dart Sport 360

Dart Sport 360

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Here's the truth and nothing but.... did I hurt this thing in the process of changing the fluid? FYI the 904 has a manual valve body in it....

Over the winter I got a deep pan for my 904. I got a filter and gasket for it and dropped the pan off her and basically it sat over night and drained. I put the filter we the extended spacer on and the new deep pan. It sat like that for probably 2 months, I just never put the fluid in it.

So a couple weeks ago its getting time get back at this thing so I picked up some ATF+4 fluid. From the search I found a thread that said to start with 5 liters and then check from there. I pushed car back in my garage and put the fluid... I put in 4 to start... I started the car and put it in N and checked it... obviously it didn't show so I put another liter in it. I it looked to me with 5th in it that it was just showing a little just at the tip of the dip stick... anyway I didn't have anymore so I tried to pull the car a head the 2 feet I pushed it back. It wouldn't move, it has a 3000 stall but I didnt rev it, if it went over 2000rpm I would be surprised.... anyway I shut it down and pushed the car ahead and that was it for the night...

I talked to my father in law and he said to jack the car up to add the remainder and run it thru the gears. So i picked up another couple liters and went at it again. I pushed the car into my driveway, jacked it up level, I started it and let it run to warm up I went thru the gears and checked the fluid. It didn't show any so I added another liter went thru the gears and checked again and it was at the add so I put another one in it, went thru the gears and checked it and it was at the add 1 pint again. I didn't have any more fluid so again I put the car down and this time pulled it in under its own power. When I pulled it into first it didn't seem to want to catch until I gave it some rpm then it seemed the pump got the pressure up and it when into first and drove in fine.

Ok so i picked up a couple more liters and today pulled it back out. I let it warm up a bit and checked in N again. I put another liter in it and it was up to the full. I figured I would just take it around the block slow instead of putting it up on stands. It rolled out onto the street when I put it in first and its real lazy going into gear. As I went around the block when I got it up to 2000 and shifted into 2nd it was like there was nothing there. I proceeded to do some laps around the subdivision and it seemed like it was going into second just that it took about 5 seconds after I shifted for it to shift. I got up to 2500 in 2nd and when I went into high it seems like it neutralizes then slowly goes into 3rd..... I got back home and checked the fluid. I jacked it up and it took about 2/3rd of the 9th liter... on the jack stands you can really see that its lazy to shift gears... if I keep my foot steady a 2000rpm when I shift it takes probably 5 second before I feel the car shift and see the tire speed change... same thing when shifting into high...

Ok so this is really long and thanks for hanging in for the read, I just didnt want to leave anything out. Did I hurt it when I fired it up with only 4 liters in it and then adding the 5th... is there an airlock? is the pump toast....

What would you guys do next?... I'll have to call my tranny guy tomorrow and see what he thinks. It always shifted nice and solid into all gears even reverse at idle... I can only assume that I hurt something by starting it with only 4 or 5 liters in it...

Thanks for your input....
 
your probably just way short on fluid , Ive got a near empty 904 waiting to go in my car and when I checked the 68 service manual for capacity it said like 8 quarts IRC which is like 7.5 litres and thats with a normal pan I`m pretty sure the purpose of a bigger pan is to use more fluid , so I think your probably only about half full which would definitely cause soft /slow shifts when it shifts at all .
 
running it a quart down isnt going to hurt it. make sure you are on level ground, engine hot and in neutral. keep checking it. a tad overfull isnt going to hurt either. if you are even a pint underfull it is going to feel lazy. just yesterday, my 727 was feeling slightly lazy, i checked the fluid, sure enough, a pint down, i topped it off, back to normal. i use nothing but pure synthetic ATF.
 
no it wont, i have done this before with no ill-effects. if there is not enough fluid to pump, it simply wont move. how long did run it this low?
 
I might have run it for 10 mins with 4 in it then added the 5th... No more than 5 mins after that.

I want to believe it's low but why is it showing full, the I run it and it shows add, I add to full, then run it and it says add... Does it take along time to move the fluid around and full the converter an all corners of the valve body?
 
yes, plus you have a deep pan, keep adding fluid ,a pint at a time. chalk the wheel and do this in neutral with the car idling until the fluid level no longer stops dropping. running it through the gears in the meantime will ensure you are getting an accurate reading. it can take a while to get these completely full. especially if the converter was pretty much empty. running it low for 10 minutes isnt going to hurt anything. hope this helps...
 
...........Hey DS360, when u put the pan on did u notice if it seemed 2 b touching the filter b 4 u snugged up the pan bolts........i always trial fit the pan w/o the gasket 1st.....u may need the bonded gasket 4 alittle more clearance.........it usually takes alot more abuse to kill a tranny than what u did, but i've seen it happen b 4.....kim.....
 
i have put in plenty of transmissions that were bone dry and i have ran them low for a lot longer until they were full. like i say, if its even a pint down it will feel lazy.
 
oldkimmer said:
...........Hey DS360, when u put the pan on did u notice if it seemed 2 b touching the filter b 4 u snugged up the pan bolts........i always trial fit the pan w/o the gasket 1st.....u may need the bonded gasket 4 alittle more clearance
Click to expand...

this is good advice . i was assuming this had been done...
 
So tomorrow I think I will check and/or add some more fluid and if that doesn't help the sluggish shifting then I'll pull the pan off and confirm the clearance between the pan and filter.

It would be nice to know how much clearance it needs. Is there any harm in eliminating the spacer all together and running the filter at the stock height?

Thanks
 
Are you checking fluid level in nuetral?With the deeper pan I figure you would need atleast 10 liters.JMO
 
Dart Sport 360 said:
So tomorrow I think I will check and/or add some more fluid and if that doesn't help the sluggish shifting then I'll pull the pan off and confirm the clearance between the pan and filter.

It would be nice to know how much clearance it needs. Is there any harm in eliminating the spacer all together and running the filter at the stock height?

Thanks
Click to expand...

no harm there, you will just have more fluid. as far as clearance , i would say as long as there is enough room for fluid flow and the filter isnt sitting on the bottom of your pan you will be alright.
 
with a deep pan, empty cooler and lines, and 8 inch converter...my 904s took over 10 qts...
 
Do not remove the spacer, remove the pan and check filter spacer height it should match the added depth of pan then check filter to spacer to valve body for proper opening and tighten filter screws. If the pan is not dented it should have proper gap. Did you drain t/converter prev. Your trans and converter will take 10-13 qts depending on application.
 
Thanks guys. I'll get a couple more liters and get back at it. I never drained the converter but it sat over night so if it drains back to the pan itself then sure... I only have the better part of 9 liters in it now so it would make sense if you guys are telling me 10 or 11... I don't understand why the pan and filter would be to close, I mean if the spacer came with the pan why would it be wrong... Unless Kimmer sold me a POS... LOL.

We'll see what happens... Thanks again.
 
........If the pan fits to the tranny with no gasket u will have lots of clearance with a gasket............. POS Lets hope not.............kim.......
 
When a few quarts low (after a drain), I often see a false level on the stick. I expect it is from spashing/slinging fluid. After a rebuild, you must run it partially full because if you try to put the full load in first, it will start overflowing (how do I know?). You have to run it a bit to fill the torque converter, then slowly add more.
 
Ok for anyone still interested.... I fired the car up and pulled it out. I jacked it up and leveled it. I ran it for probably 45 mins to an hour in different gears. I added about another 3/4 liter in her a little at a time. Its now reading about 3/4" over the full line... I took it for a slow tour around the block and its shifting pretty much the same... real slow to switch gears... Slips thru neutral to high...

I cant add anymore... the level wont drop while running and shifting gear. All I can do is drop the pan and check for clearance under the filter... Its too cold to play tonight so I'll drop it tomorrow night...

I really hope I find that the filter is not correct, I really don't want to start the season by pulling the tranny out after everything was fine when it went away.

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd love to hear it...

Thanks
 
i may have missed this but, was this trans working fine until you drained the fluid and put the deep pan and spacer on?
 
If it makes you feel any better, I drove my Breeze (727/904 derivative FWD A/T) with a slow leak, one day it didnt feel right, like it was slipping. Well, drove it to work (22 miles freeway, locked up convertor all the way) and it wouldnt even go into gear after my shift. I asked the garage for a pint and it energized, checked the level and it didnt even register on the stick and that was with the pint! It took 2 more to even show H on the stick, so they can go a few miles with low fluid.
 
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