Ok, What have I done now... (904 problem?)

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i dont think getting fluid out of the converter is going to make any difference. i have mixed atf4 with dex 3 and dex3 with type f and type f with atf4 , and i have never had anything go wrong or noticed any change. i dont think the 1 quart of leftover converter fluid is going to matter. if it really worries you about the fluid, fill it back up with dex 3. myself, personally , would just re-use what you have, but others say different.
 
My brother has a saying, "If you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras." In other words, don't over-think the problem. If it was fine before you changed the filter & fluid but not so immediately after, start there. This is a good time for k.i.s.s. Too often people panic & start to reinvent the wheel when it comes to certain things on a car. Transmissions are complex, but most of the time the problems surrounding them aren't.

With regards to the ATF types vs trans failure; I'm an ASE Master Technicain for over 25 years & a shop owner for the last 5. In addition to my own experience I have many friends who specialize in transmissions & have talked to reps. & engineers from major oil companies(E/M) & they all say the same thing. The type of ATF you use WILL NOT cause trans failure by itself. It may change shift firmness somewhat, but minimally. Most customers wont notice. If it fails after a change there is some other underlying pre-exsisting condition that would have cause failure or problems soon anyway. Worn parts, bad seals etc.
 
Lonewolf3165 said:
With regards to the ATF types vs trans failure; I'm an ASE Master Technicain for over 25 years & a shop owner for the last 5. In addition to my own experience I have many friends who specialize in transmissions & have talked to reps. & engineers from major oil companies(E/M) & they all say the same thing. The type of ATF you use WILL NOT cause trans failure by itself. It may change shift firmness somewhat, but minimally. Most customers wont notice. If it fails after a change there is some other underlying pre-exsisting condition that would have cause failure or problems soon anyway. Worn parts, bad seals etc.
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thank you for that. this my experience as well. while im not a "certified" tech per say, and im not a trans guru, i have ran enough of these in my time to know that running and mixing fluids is in no way harmful. in my opinion, whether it says ATF4 or DEXTRON or TYPE F , it is going in my 904 or 727 and it is going to work just fine. :burnout:
 
Ya, its going back together with the filter spacer and deep pan. If its still soft then its gotta come out. It must have been hurting from years of running it without the kickdown tied back. The last TWO weekends it was out last year were track days... 2 1/2 hour drive to and from track and a half dozen or more passes both weekends and it made it back both times without a noticeable problem. I cant remember for sure it I had it our for a quick cruise after that and before it went away but maybe it just decided to give up on me... just confidential that it showed up at the same time as this pan change I guess...
 
Lonewolf3165 said:
My brother has a saying, "If you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras." In other words, don't over-think the problem. If it was fine before you changed the filter & fluid but not so immediately after, start there. This is a good time for k.i.s.s. Too often people panic & start to reinvent the wheel when it comes to certain things on a car. Transmissions are complex, but most of the time the problems surrounding them aren't.

With regards to the ATF types vs trans failure; I'm an ASE Master Technicain for over 25 years & a shop owner for the last 5. In addition to my own experience I have many friends who specialize in transmissions & have talked to reps. & engineers from major oil companies(E/M) & they all say the same thing. The type of ATF you use WILL NOT cause trans failure by itself. It may change shift firmness somewhat, but minimally. Most customers wont notice. If it fails after a change there is some other underlying pre-exsisting condition that would have cause failure or problems soon anyway. Worn parts, bad seals etc.
Click to expand...

No, it won't cause it to fail, but the friction modifiers are much different and cause firmness of shifting as you say, and also slippage. This is an old tranny made to run on the thickest Dex 1 ever made. Now you have a fluid designed to work less with bands than with valving and is a much slicker fluid. There was no problem before, now there is. It is a simple thing to change the fluid and put the proper fluid in. If I am the owner of this car, I drain all the fluid, put the gasket in the right spot, drop in five quarts of Dex II, run it hot and check and add until full.
 
By chance did you loosen any of the valvebody bolts to aid in the draining of the old fluid and forget to tighten any of them before putting the pan on? ...it could happen.........
 
Yeah, I never touched any of the valve body screws....

It's been to damn cold the last couple nights. That and or the warm weather we had has softened me up so the cars is still on stands waiting for me. Maybe tonight...
 
Ok! Everyone that's interested.... Some encouraging news... I finally go it back together this evening...

I put the spacer back on with the gasket against the VB, put the pan on and dumped 6 qarts or so back in (Same ATF4 that was in it). I also tied back the kickdown as suggested... Fired it up in N.... After it ran a bit I went thru the gears. Right away when I pulled it into 1st it seemed to shift firmly into gear pretty much instantly. Same thing in reverse. I checked the stick and it was low so I added some more. I have actually almost put all of the fluid I took out back in and its not at the add yet. It still seems to go into gear good. I cant get it out on the road tonight but I'll fire it up tomorrow and take her for a boot....

I'm optimistic because its taken all that fluid this time when it was well over full the last time it was in it.... says to me that it was not picking up enough fluid before which was leaving more in the pan and giving me a high reading. I'm hoping it was the wrong gasket placement...

It seems to go in gear nice and firm but maybe now but maybe thats the kickdown lever being back and upping the pressure and giving me the firmness... I'll have to wait and see but fingers are crossed.

Thanks for everyone's input on this one! I am always open to suggestions, never stop learning!
 
glad to hear ! get it out on the road and work that thing ! shift it like you stole it. keep checking the fluid level.
 
Well... All's well that ends well. I took it for a drive and it shifts better than ever. I couldn't get out on the highway but its way better then with the gasket in the wrong place.

I can really tell the difference with that kick down lever pulled back. It almost shifts too hard from 1st to 2nd if I'm not on it and the rpm is not up high enough. I want to really get on it and see if it will do come chirpin'

So case closed I guess.. thanks again everyone that chimed in!
 
thats great man, glad it is working for you. my 727 will bark the tires from the 1-2 shift and i love it !
 
Mopar to ya said:
No, it won't cause it to fail, but the friction modifiers are much different and cause firmness of shifting as you say, and also slippage. This is an old tranny made to run on the thickest Dex 1 ever made. Now you have a fluid designed to work less with bands than with valving and is a much slicker fluid. There was no problem before, now there is. It is a simple thing to change the fluid and put the proper fluid in. If I am the owner of this car, I drain all the fluid, put the gasket in the right spot, drop in five quarts of Dex II, run it hot and check and add until full.
Click to expand...
The difference is minimal. The viscosity of the fluid is even less of a difference. Auto transmissions operate primarily on hydraulic principles. Once the clutches are applied the fluid is squeezed out from between the steels & plates anyway as they grab. A thinner viscosity fluid would only enhance the precess. Viscosity has not that much to do with friction & protection. The clutch materials in the 904 are probably the same materials used in type 4 fluid transmission. Espescially if it was ever rebuilt. There are several guys on this site & this post alone who testify they have used the type 4 fluid w/o problems. There is most likely a mechanical problem that occurred during or coincidently with the filter & fluid change.
 
:cheers:Glad to hear it DartSport360! I wish you plenty of tire chirping happy miles. I bet you breathed a sigh of relief when it shifted into 2nd & then 3rd! Good luck.
 
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