Ok, What have I done now... (904 problem?)

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is this the kit you have? mopar performance. this kit only adds i quart to your capacity. and everything i can find on it is saying that little yellow deal there or the O ring is your gasket between the spacer/valve body.
 

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It sure sounds like a restricted intake at the filter somewhere, since it happened at the exact time that the new filter and pan were installed.

If it's currently overfull, then you are not sucking up air as fluid is higher than the filter with normal levels.

Restricted at the filter is is my bet.

Are all three screws in the filter?
 
this one ? its funny how they show the same pic for the 904 and 727
 

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Lazy Jegs showing a 727 pan for the pic of a 904... They must confuse a lot of people.

I guess if I wasn't troubleshooting this mess I would be wasting time watching dancing with the stars or some s*#t. Thats the hobby right... My wife was not impressed when I said it was coming out so lets hope the filters on upside down and backwards...
 
TrailBeast said:
It sure sounds like a restricted intake at the filter somewhere, since it happened at the exact time that the new filter and pan were installed.

If it's currently overfull, then you are not sucking up air as fluid is higher than the filter with normal levels.

Restricted at the filter is is my bet.
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see, im kind of leaning towards this myself, because you said it has been working fine up until you put this kit on. you didnt run it long or hard enough with low fluid to hurt it. and it would seem to me, if the bands or clutches got burned up, the fluid would show signs of this.
 
Dart Sport 360 said:
I guess if I wasn't troubleshooting this mess I would be wasting time watching dancing with the stars or some s*#t.
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right. watching quality television lol. its almost warm enough for me to break out the charger and get it ready for the summer....almost
 
73AbodEE said:
see, im kind of leaning towards this myself, because you said it has been working fine up until you put this kit on. you didnt run it long or hard enough with low fluid to hurt it. and it would seem to me, if the bands or clutches got burned up, the fluid would show signs of this.
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The bands and clutches would make that fluid smell NASTY burned if this was the case.

AND I'd use a straw to suck the oil out of my engine mouthfull at a time to change my oil before I'd watch Dancing with the stars.
 
TrailBeast said:
The bands and clutches would make that fluid smell NASTY burned if this was the case.
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exactly, and even if the fluid is changed, you most certianly wont get all the nasty fluid out. from my experience with burned up transmissions, the bands get so overheated they cook the fluid and clutches, and eventually just stop working. the fluid turns dark brown a smells like fried motor oil. if the clutches or bands are fried , the fluid will tell you, even if it is fresh fluid....i have changed fluid out of transmissions that were cooked, and the fresh fluid still came out brown from mixing with the left over bad stuff.
 
Draining now.... This stuff is as clean as it was going in...

The stuff that came out at the pan swap was not that bad... It did have a bit of a matalic look to it but I figured that's pretty normal... Very fine dust.

It comes off after the kids go to bed....
 
Does this look like the fluid from a burnt clutch... its only been run for probably 5 hours but still it looks pretty mint to me.... gotta love the technology to show the world my used oil...lol

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No manicure comments please....
 
73AbodEE said:
and if you ask mine, she'll tell you im always wrong LOL :D

according to his dipstick, it is overfull. this is a touchy area, because if you really dont know, you are really taking a chance by continually adding fluid to find out. i have never overfilled a trans to the point it causes damage. but then, what really happens when you do ? does it blow seals?
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It spits fluid out the vent on the front pump.
 
Been a while, but let me make it more muddier. Did you drain the converter?(1/8" pipe thread plug). If not, you have 2 fluids in the trans. It seems that 2 filters are made, not inter-changable, or maybe can go on wrong- check the hole in the vb for lining up with the filter.

If the pan is 2" deeper-spacer is 2".If the fluid is right at the dip stick o-ring level, it is full. Fluid- Paul Forte @ Turbo Action told us that bands and clutches in the last 15 years like Dex 3. An a MVB dunno; on a rmvb, throtttle rod , not used or wired back.

Take this with a grain of salt, as my old azz just tells T/A the combo- they build the trans and TC anymore. It seems that maybe 2 fluids mixed ain't it's cocktail, and over 10 qts? Depends on whether whole cooling system was drained. I remember rear line in trans is return; at idle 30 lbs psi.

But I'm old, what memory? lol.
 
Mopar to ya said:
In the 90's you used to change Caravan trannys every 60K.
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The 90's 3-spd FWD tranny was also called Torqueflite, and essentially the same inside as the 904/727 except for a lockup torque converter and FWD changes (output shaft folded back thru gearset and differential added). I rebuilt the one in my 96 Voyager (413). The same tranny was used in Neons and earlier K-cars (404). Since almost identical inside, I don't know why ATF+4 wouldn't be the best fluid to also use in a 904/727. I use it.

The minivan trannys that failed regularly were the early 4-spd electronic 604 models, used in V-6 minivans. They are quite different inside, with no bands, which was a very clever design for the time. There were several upgrades made that greatly improved them from the late 80's models (can get upgrade kit). But the main reason they failed is attributed to shops putting Dexron III in since cheaper, and because some Chrysler manager decided to put a note in the owner's manual saying "Dexron III can be used when ATF is not available". Dexron made the lockup torque converter shudder and wear the clutches. High friction fluid is good, and fast hard shifts are good. If the public knew that, transmissions would be designed to shift firmly and last much longer. Since most car computers now control the throttle, the latest engine controllers manage shifts better in the latest cars.
 
OK its off and here is what I think I know....

The fluid looks and smells pretty fresh. There is a little bit of dust in it.. I don't see any large pieces of aluminum. The magnet at the drain is clean too.

The pan with no gasket is 2 1/4" deep measured with a straight edge. I put a straight edge across the filter and measured to the flange face and it's 2" inside the pan. So that gives it 1/4" clearance plus the thickness of the squeezed gasket, so close to 3/8"... Think that is enough?

Now here's something. I had that paper gasket between the spacer and filter... Not between the spacer and VB. The gasket thing has gotta be only like 0.002" thick... It's nothing, BUT... Should it be between the VB and spacer... Would it really matter because I think both are submerged in fluid cause the VB hangs down inside the pan.

I just rolled back under it to check and yes the spacer and gasket match the opening on the VB so it's not blocked...

I am open to suggestions... What would you guys do next. I'm kinda thinking of installing the filter without spacer, tie back the kick down lever, filling it back up and trying again.

Thanks for keeping this thread going guys!
 
I did not have the gasket between the VB and filter spacer. It was between the filter and spacer... How much dust? Good question, hard to describe.. Not as much as my old fluid, it looks like aluminum cause it kinda glitters. The fluid looks a bit like candy apple paint with a bit of metallic... LOL.. I did wipe my finger across the magnet and it looked like a bit of soot on my finger...
 
This could be a quick or slow fix. From my experience, as an old farz, that has played with Mopars since 1968;did you drain the converter? did you drain the cooling system? If not, over 12 qts is way too much. But then, I only been around the 60's to 70's stuff.Just helped restore a 440, 727, all new parts. Trans, converter, rad, and aux cooler. 11 qts total. Don't understand how yours wants so much fluid.

While pan is off, check the shifter claw for adjustment. Then read about the governor. I Dunno.
 
i would put it back together the way it was when it was working. leave the converter, fill it back up , tie the kickdown back. dump 6 quarts in it, fire it up, let it get hot, top it off according to the dipstick and find out if it is going to work. if it does then you can go back and add your spacer. ....thats what i would do. when you are certain it is topped off and after you have ran it through the gears, dont be afraid to get on it and shift it. then go back to the driveway and check the fluid again.
 
Just for fun, cause I'm having so much of it, I put the old filter on and measured its depth... It's 1" below the pan flange... The stock pan is only 1 1/8" deep so it only has an 1/8"clearance plus the gasket.... Just an FYI.

Ya I'm on the fence as to put the old pan back on an try it or put the deep stuff on with the filter in the right place and try it....
 
i figured it was 1/4 or so. and it sounds like fun LOL, been there, done that. its nice to have that drainplug. i have even drilled stock pans and welded in a plug. to this day i cant understand why Ma didnt make them with plugs. i would still put it back together the way you KNEW it worked, just to be sure, but thats just me.....
 
The question has never been answered; drained the rest of the system? 2 different fluids in there?

My experiences- acc valve, crap in VB, adjustments in shifter/throttle(since you only pulled the pan). It seems to keep returning to the fluid change.
Burp the lines up front/check for flow.
 
Green1,

The converter was never removed so yes there would be some left over fluid in the system... I'm pretty sure my converter does not have a drain plug. Would the upper half of the converter drain back to pan?

I have a remote cooler that I have not removed the lines from as well. The cooler lines run horizontal with the feeds at the bottom... Would they drain back to the pan overnight?

I didn't run +4 fluid in it before so whatever was left after I dropped the pan the last time would mix with the +4... What do you suggest I do?
 
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