So how about that, front wheel flew off!

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Andre68

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Well, Im pretty young, 23 years old getting into the hobby of muscle car restoration. Iv'e learned alot and I feel I have so much more to go! What have I learned today? 1) don't work on the car when exhausted/sleepy! 2)torque everything down!!!

So today while I was working on my 68 dart, my very first full restoration. Not first muscle car, but full resto.

I decided to drive it around my neighborhood, see if everything is going smoothly. Then out of nowhere the car lifts about 2 feet in the air (front end), as I drive over the front drivers side tire, and then WHAM! she slams right into the ground. I get out and I see the tire rolling and come to a stop by the rear. the front end drivers side is laying on the floor with the front fender panel dented in.

I take a closer look and it seems that the only thing that made contact with the floor was the disc brake. The front end was resting on the drivers side disc brake. (all other tires are still on the car, so im refering to only the drivers side front). So I dont know what can also be damaged from this, aside from the disc brake, dust shield, maybe the wheel and wheel studs and lugs, and my obvious fender dents.After the tire the car drove right into garage, started up fine and sounded good.

I jack up the car from the k member and put the tire back on and rolled it into the garage. (luckily this happened right in front of my house! thank God!)

I only found 2 lugs, which i take it the other 3 fell off on my little test drive.

my theory as to why this happened:

about 2 weeks ago, was a car show in my area, and i had some friend and family coming in from out of town and I told them that I would be there, in the Dart, with the Dart finished. So I pulled quite a few all nighters working on the car, and at most only getting 2-3 hours of sleeps, while taking down rockstar energy drinks like my life depended on it. Trying to get the car finished. When your sleepy and exhausted, your not thinking the best. So I remember I got this great deal on 15" indy mags, so I swapped out the mismatching wheels with the full set of mags ( it looked beautiful, lol) looking back I remember that all I did was snug them down, I didnt tighten them down 100%

So after the incident I checked all the lugs and they where all loose! not 1 was tight. So im sure with the lugs being loose and the car getting driven they came even more loose, with the front wheel being the first to go.

on the drivers side wheel, I take it that the other lugs fell off until there was just 2 left, seeing it wasnt on snug, with the back and fourth motion from the wheel it caused them to just pop off, causing the tire to slide of the wheel and under the car.

To me this is my #1 theory.

theory #2 is the wheel studs were not long enough for the bolts to get a nice snug fit on them, so driving the car caused them to just come right off. (dont find this to be likely.)

theory #3 The wheel stud were so rusted that the force of driving caused the threads to just strip causing the bolts to fly off, thus the wheel coming off. (more likely than theory #2, but #1 still sounds like the culprit)

Well I would love to hear if anyone else has ever encountered a similar issue! I just laughed, you know when its just so ridiculous that all you can do is laugh about it?

If anyone has an idea to what could be the issue, please let me know!

The car is a 68 dodge dart sedan, 318, 4 speed, 3.55 sure grip.
Front end out of a 73 duster, k member, disc brakes, rear drums, steering linkage, steering column, rear end. heck i feel the whole drive train might be out of the 73 duster!

So with that said the bolts that i bought for it where 1/2-20 standard mag wheel lugs. not sure if maybe these where the wrong size so they came right off, or what the deal is.

Not sure if my wheel is any good now either, It seems that the accident chipped off some of the wheel.

also, Ive been getting some tire rub on the front fender panels, are 225/60R15 to big for the front?

well thanks for reading my long story!
 

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Not sure but from the picture of the lug nut it looks like the nut bottomed out on the hub before it clamped the wheel tight.
I'm surprised the studs didn't break off.
 
Hard lessons but the fact that you're looking at the incident for "Lessons Learned" as they say in mil-speak is very good.

Possibility #1 matches established patterns and and fastner theory. Tech explanation. The forces that hold a thread fastener are developed from the wedging action of the threads. It is essential to preload them because steel acts a little bit like a spring and any lightly tightened screw thread will loosen when subject to vibration.

Possibility #2. It appears you did not have this problem here. Only about 4-5 threads of full engagement are needed. In fact that's all that does the majority of work even if more threads are engaged. (Exceptions being Detroit Tool's Spira-lock and to some degree Whitworth thread forms). A good rule of thumb is to have thread engagement equal to least one diameter.

Possibility #3. Doesn't look stripped in the photos. However you are right that this could be a possibility IF you had forced them. You can feel a stripped thread when you tighten them up by hand. If threads are dirty or rusty it is always good practice to run a die or thread cleaner over them. Some of us use a little bit of anti-sieze after that. Yes. Really.
Another cause of stripped threads is the bolt is too long and bottoms out before the threads tighten up.

1) don't work on the car when exhausted/sleepy! 2)torque everything down!!!
Click to expand...
1) Yea. but we've all done it. Someone told me more accidents occur after 3:30 PM than the rest of the work day. Not sure if its true but its believable. I try to call it day if its late and I catch myself doing or start to do something stupid, especially when working with power or sharp tools.

2) Ah! I had guys in pro shop (moderately high dollar race cars) that didn't know this. It's one of Carrol Smith's famous rules. His version goes something like: If you put something on, tighten to spec. Otherwise don't put it on. If you leave it to later, you'll forget.
 
I used to stay up to the wee hours of the morning working on my cars.About 15 years ago I was working on my 67 Coronet swapping in a built 383.I worked on the car for about 12-14 hours one day until about 2 am.Well anyway I left the bolts loose on the radiator and guess what happened...LOL The next morning I drove the car about 5 miles then I stopped on a back country road to get on it.As soon as I got into it fairly hard the fan blade went into the radiator.Now I always double and triple check things especially when I am tired as hell.
 
During my high school days, best friend had a 65 SS Impala. When the right rear wheel came off the car land on it. This created what looked like a second wheel well in that quarter panel. Launched that wheel and tire too. It eventually bounced/rolled down a hill and put a huge dent in a mobile home.
We found 3 of the lug nuts with the stud still in them. Those had bottomed before properly clamping the wheel.
 
I would say your theory number 1 is most likely. In your second set of pictures there is still rust/crud on the lug studs so it doesn't appear the lug nuts were bottoming out.
 
I always recheck lug nuts after a short ride had a wheel come off years ago from not retorquing them and I carry my breaker bar with me now after a wheel change as I swap wheels between my cars occasionally just to get a different look
 
Just for the sake of saying and trivia, The left side lugs and studs were once left hand threads for this very reason. Centrifugal forces tighten right hand threads on the right side but will loosen right hand threads on the left side.
 
I've learned years ago when I bought my new Weld's to re-torque the lugs after a few miles. Just heard some clunking noise from the rear. Found all four wheels were loose and I know they were torqued properly when I put them on. Fortunately I have long studs on the rear and the wheel didn't come off.
 
29 now, but when I was 18/19, I was daily driving a 2000 civic (i know...) and for some reason I removed the front spindles/control arms. When reassembling, the large castle nut holding the assembly to the lower ball joint gave me some trouble beginning threading.

I decided it would be a good idea to buzz it on with the impact wrench. The other end of the stud ended up looking completely smooth like a rod. no threads left.

But it was tight, i said. So put it back together.

A few days later, I was turning left on to Canoga from Nordhoff, and the nut gave out, and threw the entire front wheel, braking assm, and suspension out from the bottom.

At that point, I decided that I would never do anything that stupid again, and slow down, and be sure you're working on 100%. I used to try to pull the all nighter stuff 10 years ago. Im not even 30 yet, but I can definitely tell the difference in my output when I'm not 100%.

Also, on a side note, regarding that same civic, The LAST AND FINAL time I let anyone work on any of my cars was at my family's trusted mechanic, who we used for years. The job was a simple brake job on the civic. Leaving the shop in West Hills, I was driving on the 101 east around the 405, I went to apply the brakes, and got a giant clunk and then continuous grinding noise. Made it back to my inlaws house in North Hollywood, and pulled wheel off. They failed to fully tighten the upper caliper bolt, and when I hit the brakes, the top half of the caliper flew forward and etched a very geometrically accurate ring into the inside of the aluminum wheel.

Since then, no one has worked on any of our cars, except for out-of-car machine work on engines.

Glad you're ok after this, I still think about that lower control arm, and if it happened on the freeway - I might not be posting this, or anything.
 
I learned from the High Speed, High Horsepower sand rail gig to always check your car before going out on a Run. I make it a habit to check my wheel lugs just about every time I take the car out. YES I have found them loose on several occasions, especially after a night of whooping it up.

Double and triple check your parts and your work before heading out to terrorize. It will save your life and possibly others by doing so.

So moral of the story is know your car and check it often in all areas for loose this and that, bent or broken parts etc. Seat time will help you know your car very well.
 
My new to me Demon goes to the track for the first time Sunday. Saturday will be spent going over every nut and bolt that I can access. Like an airplane, preflight inspection not a bad idea.

I have already found a totally shot UCA bushing and front pads that are worn to the limit.

IMO you want lug nuts that the stud thread can stick out of, not the acorn type. That way you know the torque is holding things together and not from the lugnut bottoming out the thread. Spray a little Rem oil on the threads if you are concerned about them getting too rusty to get off.
 
Well thanks for all the replies! Glad to know I'm not the only one haha

Well I tried to google the open mag style lugs and I couldn't really find any, I think it probably is a good idea to get those but I do feel they did not bottom out because there still is some rust on them.

Here's my plan! Let me know what you guys think...
1) wd40 all of my wheel studs
2) hit them with a wire wheel
3) give them another shot of wd40, clean them off
4) coat them with blue medium strength thread locker
5) put the lug nuts back on, torque them, make sure the included washers are on the lugs


Sound good? Or do I need new wheel studs up front? Should I use one of those re threading kits on the wheel studs?

Also I was just going to sand the edges of my disc brake and bend the dust shield back to shape. Does that sound okay? I didn't look like it really got all that much damage
 
My personal opinion would be to replace the studs. Thread locker is great, for certain applications, I would not rely on it for my wheels. A cotter pin and a castle nut I would use before thread locker.
 
Wd40 is useful part of the cleaning process.
Wire wheel only if you're gentle. Steel wires on steel threads at high speed could knick 'em up. Wire brush, wd-40 and wipe off the crud.
Try spinning a lug nut on with no wheels. If it smooth, its good, if its gritty, you'll feel it in your fingers.

A thread chaser, thread 'file', or very carefully with a regular die are best methods of cleaning up threads. These are relatively cheap tools and last a long long time. With a die or chaser turn it in, then back off 1/4 turn, then turn it in some more. Don't force it down.
Thread Locker is not a great a substitute in this case. Threadocker depends on squeezing all the air out to set. It's little help if the nut isn't tightened at half decently.

If you can, buy a torque wrench. '68 shop manual says go to 65 ft-lbs for the Belivedere/Satellite and Fury models that use 1/2-20. With no torque wrench, then absolutely follow the recommended procedure of installing finger tight or a little more with wheel off the ground, and then with some weight on the wheel, go around tightening every other nut until all have been done TWICE. To get a very rough feel for 65 ft lbs, find something that ways 50-70 pounds and stick on at 1' on a breaker bar or 30 lbs wieght at 2'.

Replace the stud if you can't get it cleaned up enough to spin on a lug nut without hanging up. Replace the stud if it doesn't really tighten up at 65 ft lbs.

Open ended mag style lug nuts. If you really want, search out the McGuard and Gorilla brands. I haven't looked in a while but some racing sanctioning bodies require open nuts so there is a market.

If you don't want to get open style and long studs, then just do the measurements. One way to reduce the math is run the nuts on without rims until they bottom (gently!) measure with tape or clay and compare with rim thickness.

The Mag style nuts are bit of b*tch because the entire surface is rubbing against the aluminum in the hole as you tighten them.

The rim itself. I see what looks to be a crack in addition to the chip. Neither is good.
 
I heard it's the cone of the lugnut that keeps them from loosening. Those have no cone. That's yer prob. :roll:
 
I didn't notice that anyone mentioned that your front disk brakes are from a 1973+ car. Shouldn't matter if everything was done correctly, but check to be sure. Also, I assume you checked whether your studs are LH or RH threads. I can't quite make out in the photo. The nuts wouldn't screw down much if wrong. I assume you are screwing the nuts by hand and feeling that everything is right, not just flying with an impact gun. Mag wheels and nuts can be complicated. It looks to me that yours match ("mag" nuts, not "acorn" type w/ a bevel), but I have run into conflicts even when "about right".

Ideally, your wheels will have a center hole that fits tight to the "hub register" of your car. That is termed "hub-centric". Otherwise, you rely on the studs to center the wheel ("lug-centric"), which probably works better with acorn nuts. You can get nylon spacers on ebay to fit different hubs (forgot exact name, Gorilla something is a brand).
 
I'll go with the simplest theory - the simplest explanation is usually the most plausible one.

Did the same thing myself once - but on the rear wheels.

Coming back from the drags with my '72 Cuda I felt a funny vibration and some strange noise coming from the rear wheels. Pulled over and found only a couple of very loose lug nuts holding each of the rear wheels on, chewed up wheel studs and elongated holes in my wheels. At the track when I took my slicks off and put my my street tires back on for the drive home I must of simply forgot to torque them down.
 
To be on the SAFE side.....REPLACE ALL of those studs and buy NEW nuts for them at the same time. Once you have a wheel come off there is no way of telling how good the studs are. You only want this to happen ONCE not twice if at all.
 
Alright well I'm gonna buy new wheel studs. How do I remove the old ones and how do I put the new ones on? Thanks!
 
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