Supercharged or Stroked 360

Supercharger or Stroked

  • Total voters
    119
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MuuMuu101 said:
So, someone made another good point on moparts... If I stroke this particular engine, I practically wouldn't be reusing any components except for the block, intake, carb, and headers. Why not start over?

If that were the case I'd definitely be tempted to go Gen III Hemi. I'm getting a Borgeson PS box installed anyways.
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So instead of Both, it's None-of-the-Above ? :)
But yeah that's a good thought.
Keep this engine complete as a package for either to sell it as is, or use it in another project one day.

Then again, going the Hemi-route, besides the power steeringbox changeover, also means a crapload of rewiring has to be done, stock computer or aftermarket (steep learning curve), actual fitment of the engine in the tiny engine bay, custom enginemounts, expensive headers, custom oilpan, custom oilfilter setup.

How long will the car sit idle in the garage when all is said and done?

A built-360 will be much easier/quicker to install and have fun with.
 
I voted for supercharging:
1) Broader torque curve can be had if you pick it right; better for road race and auto-x IMO
2) Anyone can do stroker these days....buy a kit and shove it in.... yawnnnn....
3) I'm not doing the work! LOL
 
Boost it :) How many people go forced induction?
 
BigBlockMopar said:
So instead of Both, it's None-of-the-Above ? :)
But yeah that's a good thought.
Keep this engine complete as a package for either to sell it as is, or use it in another project one day.

Then again, going the Hemi-route, besides the power steeringbox changeover, also means a crapload of rewiring has to be done, stock computer or aftermarket (steep learning curve), actual fitment of the engine in the tiny engine bay, custom enginemounts, expensive headers, custom oilpan, custom oilfilter setup.

How long will the car sit idle in the garage when all is said and done?

A built-360 will be much easier/quicker to install and have fun with.
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Right so originally, a year or so ago, I wanted a Gen III Hemi. However, when I factored everything you mentioned above, including cost, I decided to go small block as it's a drop-in situation. I was even contemplating stroking it. Then I saw this engine for sale and said it was way too good of a deal so I jumped on it quick and bought it. The whole point was to get the Dart fun and done so I can start enjoying it as a grad present to myself. The shop is taking a little bit slower than I'd like but if I did it, it would have taken me 2-5 years to get it anywhere near this point.
 
So, as most of you know I'm scatter brained when it comes to builds. My thought process of right now is similar to the one I started with. Send the engine to IMM. Have them look it over and tell me what kind of condition it's in. Fix the small problems. If good, have them regasket and seal it. Add an Edelbrock Performer RPM to clear the hood and maybe a cam. Then just go. Second quickest and cheapest way to get a reliable engine after just throwing it in there.

I'll do a different engine swap when I do paint and body years down the line. But first, I want to make sure I have another project running and driving where I won't go insane, again, with nothing to work on at the house.
 
n.y.340 dart said:
Sell the supercharger and use the money for the stroker.
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My thoughts exactly!

Then I read the rest of the thread and got to thinking. Sell the entire thing and it'll more than finance a B block 383 or 400 stock stroke so you can wind the **** out of it for autocross and 833 trans for some compression braking. Throw on some aluminum heads and intake to kick the weight down, fiberglas hood, fenders, valence and bumper, and your front end will end up lighter than a stock LA engine front end.

There's the start of your autocross car. Since you're going to throw it in a dart, why not something like a 64 dart wagon for your autocross toy? Make up a set of plastic groceries to fill the back too. The idea is to beat AND humiliate all those kids in their riceburners with the fart cann mufflers...
 
My thinking on this is the supercharger can be tuned in to match your corner exit rpm and get the rwhp you desire.

Now I am an old school guy who has come to realize that modern technology is passing me by and am now starting to see it as an easy tuning tool. A Gen III Hemi with a lap top could give all the feed back needed to fine tune engine to individual tracks and duplicate results. I see these guys at the drag strip and know a Ford guy who does it and once it is in place with data it is just too easy.
 
Coronet 500 said:
My thinking on this is the supercharger can be tuned in to match your corner exit rpm and get the rwhp you desire.

Now I am an old school guy who has come to realize that modern technology is passing me by and am now starting to see it as an easy tuning tool. A Gen III Hemi with a lap top could give all the feed back needed to fine tune engine to individual tracks and duplicate results. I see these guys at the drag strip and know a Ford guy who does it and once it is in place with data it is just too easy.
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Again, odds are that will happen years down the line when I do paint and body.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
Right so originally, a year or so ago, I wanted a Gen III Hemi. However, when I factored everything you mentioned above, including cost, I decided to go small block as it's a drop-in situation. I was even contemplating stroking it. Then I saw this engine for sale and said it was way too good of a deal so I jumped on it quick and bought it. The whole point was to get the Dart fun and done so I can start enjoying it as a grad present to myself. The shop is taking a little bit slower than I'd like but if I did it, it would have taken me 2-5 years to get it anywhere near this point.
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Oops. It seems you are a younger fellow.Dual turbos might be a budget killer. At least it wouldabin for my kids. A well built 360 will be a ton of fun in a lightweight Dart, all by it's naturally aspirated, 3.58 stroke, self.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Oops. It seems you are a younger fellow.Dual turbos might be a budget killer. At least it wouldabin for my kids. A well built 340 will be a ton of fun in a lightweight Dart, all by it's naturally aspirated, 3.31 stroke, self.
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Yeah, I'm turning 24 in a couple weeks. Last April I just finished my BS in Mechanical Engineering and I'm looking into getting my Masters in ME next September. So that's why I want this Dart running and driving, because once I start my Master's, I may not have time for a big project.
 
Here's another tip for in times where money or time is scarce;

- Use what you got or build/make what you can't (afford to) buy.

what I'm saying, drop the supercharged 360 in the engine bay, have fun with it and see how time goes if you want something else.

The best method to never get anything done is to keep changing plans.
I, for one, speaketh of many experiences... :)
 
BigBlockMopar said:
Here's another tip for in times where money or time is scarce;

- Use what you got or build/make what you can't (afford to) buy.

what I'm saying, drop the supercharged 360 in the engine bay, have fun with it and see how time goes if you want something else.

The best method to never get anything done is to keep changing plans.
I, for one, speaketh of many experiences... :)
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Again, kind of my leaning point. Another idea I'm leaning on is removing the supercharger and seeing how much power can be squeezed out with the current internals (assuming there's no issues and they're good). With an aluminum timing cover and water pump and maybe some Eddy heads, that would lighten things up a bit. Plus it would be reliable and not a huge jump in hp. Again, I could save/sell the supercharger.
 
The 360 can make more than enough power to have fun with, even as a mild build. If I was on a budget, I'd just drop it in as is and run what you brung; no mods whatsoever.
Well except for the M1. With the cylinder pressure around 150, and the supercharger app, it's probably running a smallish cam, so the M1 will be a bit lazy on the bottom,without the super. If I'm right about the cam, that engine will be wanting a dualplane, or a small-plenum single.Which one won't matter much, unless you have to buy a new one..I have found the AirGap pretty good right from the get-go. It's good value for the money.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The 360 can make more than enough power to have fun with, even as a mild build. If I was on a budget, I'd just drop it in as is and run what you brung; no mods whatsoever.
Well except for the M1. With the cylinder pressure around 150, and the supercharger app, it's probably running a smallish cam, so the M1 will be a bit lazy on the bottom,without the super. If I'm right about the cam, that engine will be wanting a dualplane, or a small-plenum single.Which one won't matter much, unless you have to buy a new one..I have found the AirGap pretty good right from the get-go. It's good value for the money.
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Well, either way I've got to find a way to clear the stock hood if the supercharger is going in. With an NA engine I can install a dropped base air filter that should be able to clear. I do have an LD4B coming in the mail, but that might be a little bit on the smaller side. Or I can go with an AirGap like you said.
 
Yeah. Use a paxton or vortec style like you see at a thousand different car shows. Sounds good.
 
I don't know about you guys, but if I saw a 408 stroker or blown 360 and it only made 400whp I'd be none too impressed. Not trying to insult anybody, but a well thought out 360 would meet that goal easily, IMO.

How about a stock stroke 360 in the 10-10.5:1 compression range, roller cam upgrade (spec'd for your build, there are a few advantages over flat tappet), ported aluminum heads(ported Eddys or Speedmaster), port matched intake (single or dual plane), and last but not least, EFI (FITECH is looking promising). A build like this would easily meet your goals and, IMO, would be much more enjoyable. No hassling with the blower setup. No having to worry about the longevity issues with a 4" stroke (Piston skirt wear). No fooling with stumbles, bogs, or heat soak issues associated with carbs (assuming you can tune one anyway). Just get in it, hit the key, and go.
 
UOP said:
I don't know about you guys, but if I saw a 408 stroker or blown 360 and it only made 400whp I'd be none too impressed. Not trying to insult anybody, but a well thought out 360 would meet that goal easily, IMO.

How about a stock stroke 360 in the 10-10.5:1 compression range, roller cam upgrade (spec'd for your build, there are a few advantages over flat tappet), ported aluminum heads(ported Eddys or Speedmaster), port matched intake (single or dual plane), and last but not least, EFI (FITECH is looking promising). A build like this would easily meet your goals and, IMO, would be much more enjoyable. No hassling with the blower setup. No having to worry about the longevity issues with a 4" stroke (Piston skirt wear). No fooling with stumbles, bogs, or heat soak issues associated with carbs (assuming you can tune one anyway). Just get in it, hit the key, and go.
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The current configuration has cast internals and is therefore only running about 4-5 lbs of boost. If it had forged internals, I wouldn't mind cranking it up to 7-8 which should put it in the 450 whp range.

And again, I was sort of thinking along your lines. It would be a lighter, more reliable setup.

The FiTech guys run at the autocrosses I generally go to and are located about 30 miles away from where I live. I'm thinking about this option as well. But, with everything that's going on, I don't think I want to throw $2k+ down now for EFI (as much as I want it).
 
I wouldn't have any issues running 450whp on stock internals. That motor should easily handle that. Stock SBM internals aren't weak, guys have been spinning them high rpms and with power adders for decades. They're proven. Get a good tuneup in it and it'll live a long life at 450whp.
 
400 HP is nothing for a NA stroker...or even stock stroked 360, for that matter. If you want a budget stroker, and you plan on keeping it under 500HP, use the stock rods, get a cast stroker crank (about $300), a set of pistons, good valve job and bowl blend. There are several off the shelf cams that will support it, topped with a RPM Airgap and 750. That will easily get you over 400HP/TQ. If you sell the SC, you might be able to fund the whole build with it.
 
Thinking out loud...
Remember he's talking rear wheel hp. So it's a little more of a project to reach 480-500 at the crank. Not really hard to do but more of a project than a stock 360 with a cam. I've done it in a 422 with ported factory iron and a small hydraulic cam. If it was me I would not want it boosted. Especially with a carbuertor on it. There is way too much that can go wrong when the Gs are flinging things around at speed to want a blower/carb combo.
You bought a rebuilt engine with a problem. You need to have it looked at to find out why. If it's a bore issue and it needs to be bored, or the machining sucks and it needs to be bored, that block may not be good enough. So have it torn down and inspected. If the bores are round and straight then have it sonic tested to make sure that's good. If it passes that, have them install rotating assembly and move forward with a NA engine. A solid flat tappet, or (preferably) solid roller w/lifter bushings and a set of heads that flows 260 @ .500 will get you there.
No boost is easier to tune, much more forgiving, and most iportantly the power is smoothly managable. If you're road racing you want a bunch of torque, and just enough gear to reach the end of the longest straight at 10% past the hp peak flat out. This type of engine will be done at 6K or less.
 
I feel like I've seen this motor before, maybe it was in the Reline Guageworks Valiant? If so that car was a canyon carver!
 
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