Because if he started his own thread about clutch's you'd chime in somehow about speedmaster heads...…….
Tame my 4-speed Stroker....
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j par
Well-hung Member
Thank you so much for your kind opinion and I appreciate it...Because if he started his own thread about clutch's you'd chime in somehow about speedmaster heads...…….
weedburner
Well-Known Member
The small loose parts? They are just extras of those easily lost parts that can ruin your day.
Grant
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
LOL. I have no doubt that would tip a bunch of clowns over.
You should point that out more often just to watch them lose their minds.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Because if he started his own thread about clutch's you'd chime in somehow about speedmaster heads...…….
Exactly. I've been on point this entire thread. He doesn't like what I say so he says I'm derailing his thread.
Just not true.
weedburner
Well-Known Member
The inner dial gets two balls to keep it from free spinning on the shaft. The slide bushing also gets two balls to keep the shaft from rotating as it slides in/out of the dash bracket. I usually install the shaft in the dial or bushing, then load the balls before installing the O-rings.
Grant
j par
Well-hung Member
When I put the inner balls in I used a Phillips screwdriver that fit the whole. That way I could put the balls on the tip and they would pop in the holes and I would shove the driver and hold them until I can get the threaded grooved shaft to take its place...
j par
Well-hung Member
I would like to bring up the clutch type again?...
j par
Well-hung Member
Anyways I know you don't frequent this forum that much that I know of but I wanted to bring up exactly the kind of Clutch and pressure plate and if I'm using the correct flywheel for this application...
I'm talking part numbers in the whole nine yards, something for me to look up...
All I remember is you talking about a Sinistered clutch.. I may just give you a call if I don't hear back here..
weedburner
Well-Known Member
In the 9-10sec zone under 3500lbs, drag strip performance with a 'tamer is more about how the clutch pulls the engine down and not so much about materials. Iron friction material is generally going to last quite a bit longer than organic at the track, but organic/ceramic/iron are all capable of about the same results.
If you have synchros, the disc's MOI can have a huge effect on your ability to complete a hi-rpm shift. You especially don't want a disc with a lot of weight around it's outer diameter. Organic friction material is pretty lite, but a solid hub/carrier is going to be better for hi-rpm synchro shifting than a marcel/sprung hub design. Also puck style ceramic/iron is going to be a better choice than a long lasting but heavy full-face iron disc.
When it's a street/strip car, you may also want to factor in the clutch's street manners. Personally I can say that I prefer a dual friction disc for a street/strip car. Might require more frequent replacement than an iron at the drag strip, but when they can last a full season I consider the improved street manners worth the trade-off. Don't be surprised if it lasts several years of street/strip duty.
All that said, for a 'tamed street/strip car I recommend a standard lite steel flywheel, diaphragm PP with a ductile iron pressure ring, and a common dual friction disc. Affordable, commonly available, durable, that's what's in my car. Personally I prefer Ram, not sure how ebay cheapies would hold up considering my tach occasionally sees 8600.
Grant
If you have synchros, the disc's MOI can have a huge effect on your ability to complete a hi-rpm shift. You especially don't want a disc with a lot of weight around it's outer diameter. Organic friction material is pretty lite, but a solid hub/carrier is going to be better for hi-rpm synchro shifting than a marcel/sprung hub design. Also puck style ceramic/iron is going to be a better choice than a long lasting but heavy full-face iron disc.
When it's a street/strip car, you may also want to factor in the clutch's street manners. Personally I can say that I prefer a dual friction disc for a street/strip car. Might require more frequent replacement than an iron at the drag strip, but when they can last a full season I consider the improved street manners worth the trade-off. Don't be surprised if it lasts several years of street/strip duty.
All that said, for a 'tamed street/strip car I recommend a standard lite steel flywheel, diaphragm PP with a ductile iron pressure ring, and a common dual friction disc. Affordable, commonly available, durable, that's what's in my car. Personally I prefer Ram, not sure how ebay cheapies would hold up considering my tach occasionally sees 8600.
Grant
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Like you pointed out...once the disc weight starts getting a little bit heavier than a rag disc, you start running into issues shifting at RPM.
Then you need to get I the box and slick shift it, or you can pro shift it but that is real clunky.
Or, you can use Liberty rings. Or you can face plate it.
I'm seriously thinking I may face plate my junk...but I'm not having issues shifting right now. So..........but damn I like the idea.
I’ll be face plating my garbage later.
j par
Well-hung Member
Right now I'm running 440 Source Billet steel flywheel with this pressure plate from the ACT set up, but I have a cheap $105 Hayes disc in there now. I've thought about putting this 6 Puck clutch back in, but I thought it was the demise of 8 3/4 LOL... alas I have a Dana 60 in now so this won't be a problem.. I just remember it not having good Street manners and being a little bit more like a light switch on or off.. it was easy to let the rear tire spin a little but now that I have drag radials that's not going to happen... I assume this is some kind of ceramic material? I do have synchros in my 4-speed...
I was planning on pulling my motor and transmission here within the next couple months (for multiple reasons) as I wanted to see how that disc was holding up.. I'm pretty sure back away's you recommended trying that six puck...
But I guess what you're saying also is likely if my Hayes disc is holding up well to just continue using that?...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
First things first.
With that disc you should be able to shift at 8500 if you want to. It's not as light as a 3 puck disc, but light enough you should be able to shift most any RPM you want.
The second thing is that particular disc materiel doesn't like to get slipped. Doesn't matter if it's slipping because your holding it back with the CT or you are using an adjustable pressure plate it still has the tendency to smear. You'll know it when it happens because the disc lining will stack up and take up all your free play. Then you'll adjust it and another pass or two and the free play will be gone again.
It will just stack up and make a mess.
I think Grant said he's using a dual faced disc and I'd defer to him if he's using that and it's working. No sense in trying to cut a new path where one isn't needed.
Very few friction materiel can handle any kind of slipping. Some actually hate it.
Edit: If it's ceramic I'm not sure how well it will take slipping. It may take a ton of heat though.
j par
Well-hung Member
I had a conversation with Grant this morning about the different clutches. Let me start by reminding everybody who buys a clutch Tamer that there in great hands and buying a product from someone who's going to patiently help you through any questions you might have. It's always a pleasure to call Grant...
With that said he recommended for someone like myself with a great deal of Street use along with some drag racing to just keep it simple and keep with my organic clutch for good Street manners and make sure to give it a little cool down time in between drag race runs and I should be just fine...
With that said he recommended for someone like myself with a great deal of Street use along with some drag racing to just keep it simple and keep with my organic clutch for good Street manners and make sure to give it a little cool down time in between drag race runs and I should be just fine...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
BTW, you may want to call Grant and ask him if he thinks is ok to run a rag disc with a marcel. Every time I tried it, the marcel would allow the disc materiel to flex and over a relatively short period of time, the disc materiel would fracture and fall off. That cost me 500 bucks one night, and I had to drive home without a clutch. Also happened one night at Alcoa in a buddies car, but luckily, I didn't have any cash out that night.
They used to make those discs without a marcel. It's at least worth asking about.
They used to make those discs without a marcel. It's at least worth asking about.
j par
Well-hung Member
I'm sure if you quoted him he'd answer your questions and also he's very easy to get ahold of on the phone...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
LOL. I haven't run a rag disc since probably 1985 and I've never use a CT. That's why I suggested you talk to Grant about the Marcel spring issues I had. It may not matter with the CT. I just don't know that because I've never used one.
j par
Well-hung Member
Well stay tuned for a full report this summer...
weedburner
Well-Known Member
The Ram 300/900 dual friction disc i'm using now was in the car back in 2008/2009 (before nitrous and before the 'tamer) with a different transmission/spline. One side is organic, the other side sintered iron pucks, it also has a damped hub and a marcel carrier. Last winter I swapped hubs so it would fit my Toploader input shaft and put it back in. It was .320" thick when I put it in, after a season with the Hitmaster I haven't had a reason to pull it back out for a status measurement. Well mannered on the street and very easy to modulate, it's getting the job done and is going to stay in for another season.
Before the current DF disc, the car had a Ram full face 5135 iron solid hub/carrier disc. When installed it was .385" thick, at the end of the season it was .370". They are used up at about .270". It still has quite a bit of life left in the friction material, but it's soft narrow hub shows quite a bit of spline wear. Input shaft spline shows no wear. On the street it usually had an annoying squeal on initial take-off and was hard to modulate with my foot, but it handles 2nd gear no-prep launches like a champ.
Before the full face iron it had a Ram 900 series puck style sintered iron disc, it has a damped hub and marcel carrier. In a summer with the 'tamer it went from .320" to .310" thick. On the street it tended to chatter a bit on initial take-off, but moderately easy to modulate.
I used the same Ram 2800lb PP on all three, only hand sanded the pressure ring between discs. I did shim it .060" when I installed the thicker full face disc.
Here's the calculated torque capacities for the 10.375" clutch discs when used with my 2800lb pressure plate...
...organic about 504 ftlbs
...ceramic about 821 ftlbs
...dual friction about 772 ftlbs
...puck iron about 809 ftlbs
...full face iron about 803 ftlbs
If I were going to run my 355 without nitrous, I could likely get by with an organic disc. Spraying another 250 puts it near the calculated limit of the dual friction that's in there now, no problems so far.
Grant
Before the current DF disc, the car had a Ram full face 5135 iron solid hub/carrier disc. When installed it was .385" thick, at the end of the season it was .370". They are used up at about .270". It still has quite a bit of life left in the friction material, but it's soft narrow hub shows quite a bit of spline wear. Input shaft spline shows no wear. On the street it usually had an annoying squeal on initial take-off and was hard to modulate with my foot, but it handles 2nd gear no-prep launches like a champ.
Before the full face iron it had a Ram 900 series puck style sintered iron disc, it has a damped hub and marcel carrier. In a summer with the 'tamer it went from .320" to .310" thick. On the street it tended to chatter a bit on initial take-off, but moderately easy to modulate.
I used the same Ram 2800lb PP on all three, only hand sanded the pressure ring between discs. I did shim it .060" when I installed the thicker full face disc.
Here's the calculated torque capacities for the 10.375" clutch discs when used with my 2800lb pressure plate...
...organic about 504 ftlbs
...ceramic about 821 ftlbs
...dual friction about 772 ftlbs
...puck iron about 809 ftlbs
...full face iron about 803 ftlbs
If I were going to run my 355 without nitrous, I could likely get by with an organic disc. Spraying another 250 puts it near the calculated limit of the dual friction that's in there now, no problems so far.
Grant
j par
Well-hung Member
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I thought you were going to use a rag disc? Did you change your mind already??
j par
Well-hung Member
I've never even heard of a rag clutch until you talked about them.. I have no idea do you have a link?..
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