Tame my 4-speed Stroker....

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yellow rose said:
Technically...no. An adjustable PP doesn't slip the clutch, per se. The pedal is all the way out. The CT controls the speed at which the pedal comes out.

That's two different things. But if guys for whatever reason want to run a diaphragm PP the CT is the on,y way I know of to control the application of the clutch.

Why the love for that PP I have no idea. Other than cost, there is no reason to run that PP. That and idiotic class rules.
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so then the CT will slip the clutch some. It's the only way to control the torque that would be applied to the rear wheels without lowering the rpm's (or output) of the engine. When I race a factory set up, I keep the rpm's high and rode the clutch "feeling the tires grab" before fully engaging. This is how I had the CT figured. Am I wrong?
 
318willrun said:
so then the CT will slip the clutch some. It's the only way to control the torque that would be applied to the rear wheels without lowering the rpm's (or output) of the engine. When I race a factory set up, I keep the rpm's high and rode the clutch "feeling the tires grab" before fully engaging. This is how I had the CT figured. Am I wrong?
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No, that's correct. The CT is way more adjustable and way more consistent than any human can ever be. Especially when you add the two step to it.

Like ive said before, I'd rather do it with the PP, but the CT fills the void for guys that can't afford a clutch, or more likely, don't want to learn to tune a clutch.

This winter I'm going to suck it up and buy a data logger. Said I would NEVER do that again. But I'm going to do it, just to keep an eye on the clutch tune up.
 
318willrun said:
so then the CT will slip the clutch some. It's the only way to control the torque that would be applied to the rear wheels without lowering the rpm's (or output) of the engine. When I race a factory set up, I keep the rpm's high and rode the clutch "feeling the tires grab" before fully engaging. This is how I had the CT figured. Am I wrong?
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Yes... your wrong..
 
Yes it slips the clutch... you can slice it 20 ways but it still slips the clutch. But if adjusted properly it shouldn’t take much life off the discs.

I am running drag radials because it is primarily a street car and 1). I dont want to be skating around the streets with BF Goodrich hockey pucks and 2). I want to brag how fast I went on street tires...lol

It really wont matter if I dont get this car finished and on the street.
 
mbaird said:
Yes it slips the clutch... you can slice it 20 ways but it still slips the clutch. But if adjusted properly it shouldn’t take much life off the discs.

I am running drag radials because it is primarily a street car and 1). I dont want to be skating around the streets with BF Goodrich hockey pucks and 2). I want to brag how fast I went on street tires...lol

It really wont matter if I dont get this car finished and on the street.
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I had a buddy with a Camaro. Way back in the day (1981 HS drags was where we met) he would use a McLeod rag disc with something like 2000 pounds of base pressure. He knew he could get 70-80 runs out of a disc. When he hit the number, he changed the disc. He had three discs. One in the car, one ready to go in, and one being re-lined.

He never broke anything.
 
I slip the clutch on my dirt bike constantly ... 10k on same disc and still going strong !
Albeit this is a wet clutch.
 
mbaird said:
Yes it slips the clutch... you can slice it 20 ways but it still slips the clutch. But if adjusted properly it shouldn’t take much life off the discs.
.
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Exactly how I thought it functioned. Thanks.
 
Sorry Jpar but yes the clutch is slipping.
If it wasnt the wheels would be turning at exactly the mathematical equivalent of the rpms divided by the gear ratios...any different means the clutch is slipping. Its math.

And its ok because clutches are designed to slip some. They have to.
318willrun said:
Apparently others agree with me and maybe you don't even know the function of what you installed on your car???
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yellow rose said:
I had a buddy with a Camaro. Way back in the day (1981 HS drags was where we met) he would use a McLeod rag disc with something like 2000 pounds of base pressure. He knew he could get 70-80 runs out of a disc. When he hit the number, he changed the disc. He had three discs. One in the car, one ready to go in, and one being re-lined.

He never broke anything.
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Same era, my brothers 340 demon put a new clutch in it, and it needed one when he sold it. Countless races over a couple years. Driving it everyday, you become "one" with your car. On a good tire and road, the clutch was out much faster, on a smooth road and traction was challenged, he'd ride the clutch with rpm's up. He took out big block chivies, or anything else.
 
Well just like I was reading about when I first started the subject a few hours ago. I'll go back and say it again all the Forum gurus and clutch Masters all jumped in and slapped this product all around and everyone who had one had nothing bad to say about it...
 
j par said:
Well just like I was reading about when I first started the subject a few hours ago. I'll go back and say it again all the Forum gurus and clutch Masters all jumped in and slapped this product all around and everyone who had one had nothing bad to say about it...
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No, I've always said its better to do it with the clutch. Still do. But for those who can't or won't, this is the only option I know of.

I doubt you can find anyone who had an adjustable clutch and switched to a CT. Some of the guys running them have no choice...class rules.

I'd bet I've told 10 people in the last 5 years to buy one. It's one or the other.
 
I've had customers use a 'tamer with their adjustable clutch. Momentarily holds back some centrifugal, allows a higher rpm hit without knocking radials loose.

Grant
 
yellow rose said:
No, I've always said its better to do it with the clutch. Still do. But for those who can't or won't, this is the only option I know of.

I doubt you can find anyone who had an adjustable clutch and switched to a CT. Some of the guys running them have no choice...class rules.

I'd bet I've told 10 people in the last 5 years to buy one. It's one or the other.
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I'm sure those guys have plenty invested in there rag clutches and their time and equipment. Probably getting the results they wanted with it.. also there's people that have a very hard time accepting something that is new and less expensive... Because they spent so much money getting to where they are and here comes some guy in the screen door parts matching them or blowing them away.
Has a recall there was a day when you had a much harder time with this product..
 
j par said:
I'm sure those guys have plenty invested in there rag clutches and their time and equipment. Probably getting the results they wanted with it.. also there's people that have a very hard time accepting something that is new and less expensive... Because they spent so much money getting to where they are and here comes some guy in the screen door parts matching them or blowing them away.
Has a recall there was a day when you had a much harder time with this product..
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bottom line is you bought it, you installed it, you like it, and I can tell you are going to have fun with it. This is all the simple facts that really matter
 
j par said:
I'm sure those guys have plenty invested in there rag clutches and their time and equipment. Probably getting the results they wanted with it.. also there's people that have a very hard time accepting something that is new and less expensive... Because they spent so much money getting to where they are and here comes some guy in the screen door parts matching them or blowing them away.
Has a recall there was a day when you had a much harder time with this product..
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I don't know anyone running a rag disc any more. You see, you haven't learned enough yet to understand why an adjustable PP and sintered iron disc is a better way of doing it.

As of what Grant said above about running a CT over a sintered iron system makes no sense to me.
 
NMRA Coyote Stock and Factory Stock classes are like the wild west for diaphragm clutches. On one end of the scale you have the custom adjustable Black Magic clutches with different centrifugal levers/weights, a range of diaphragm springs, and choices of just about any compound sintered iron disc. Pretty much everything Cale can do within the confines of a diaphragm design to mimic the performance of a Long style adjustable clutch. On the other end of the scale you have guys running off the shelf "Spec 2" style pressure plates and organic discs. The iron setups last 80+ runs. Off the shelf organic is good for about 17-18 runs. With the iron setups, the inserts are usually swapped out with the discs. With the organic, the disc may be worn out but the flywheel/PP see hardly any wear. Both iron and organic are equally capable of winning on any given day.

The basic "war" is between the Black Magic "wheelspeed" camp and most everyone else that uses the 'tamer to dead hook. The wheelspeed clutch expert guys call the 'tamer a "clutch crutch" cheat that takes away their hard earned advantage. The dead hook guys just feel it levels the playing field. The wheelspeed guys usually qualify near the top, but the dead hooking 'tamer guys took home the big check at every event this year.

Banter like this long running series of memes is pretty common in the closed/hidden facebook groups...

clutchtamergonewild.jpg


clutchtamergonewild2.png


Grant
 
weedburner said:
NMRA Coyote Stock and Factory Stock classes are like the wild west for diaphragm clutches. On one end of the scale you have the custom adjustable Black Magic clutches with different centrifugal levers/weights, a range of diaphragm springs, and choices of just about any compound sintered iron disc. Pretty much everything Cale can do within the confines of a diaphragm design to mimic the performance of a Long style adjustable clutch. On the other end of the scale you have guys running off the shelf "Spec 2" style pressure plates and organic discs. The iron setups last 80+ runs. Off the shelf organic is good for about 17-18 runs. With the iron setups, the inserts are usually swapped out with the discs. With the organic, the disc may be worn out but the flywheel/PP see hardly any wear. Both iron and organic are equally capable of winning on any given day.

The basic "war" is between the Black Magic "wheelspeed" camp and most everyone else that uses the 'tamer to dead hook. The wheelspeed clutch expert guys call the 'tamer a "clutch crutch" cheat that takes away their hard earned advantage. The dead hook guys just feel it levels the playing field. The wheelspeed guys usually qualify near the top, but the dead hooking 'tamer guys took home the big check at every event this year.

Banter like this long running series of memes is pretty common in the closed/hidden facebook groups...

View attachment 1715412752

View attachment 1715412753

Grant
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Again, the RULE say they MUST run a diaphragm PP. two totally different situations.

You have a funny way about you Grant. At least be honest and up front about what the rules are and how it works.

I don't know of a single example of someone, who CAN use an adjustable PP and sintered iron disc going away from that to a diaphragm PP. That may be the case, but I doubt it. There is zero to gain and way too much to loose.

This is why I have issues telling people to use your stuff. Be honest about why things are the way they are. The Coyote people (the cats who make the rules) are dead set against opening up the clutch rules to allow anything other than the diaphragm PP. I have my thoughts on why that is, but some have told me the company line is they want the cars as close to showroom as possible.

Ok. Whatever.

At any rate, anymore it's easier to tell people to buy the CT and let them bandaid a junk clutch than try to educate them about proper clutch load and application.

Two different worlds.
 
j par said:
^^^it's almost like post 517 and 522 are the same...
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Not hardly. Not even close. The issue is you have a fundamentally basic understanding of clutches. And even less of an understanding of the "rules" most of these guys run under.

Again, I've said it over and over...using a 30 flywheel and a non adjustable PP is just goofy if you don't have to. Then using a device to slip the clutch (as opposed to controlling the application of it) to control the abusive clutch is silly.

The real reason guys use them is because they can go online, buy a $375.00 clutch and flywheel and then add a CT and get it to not kill parts.

The other option is 2k or a bit more for a lightweight FW (which helps in virtually every application) and an adjustable clutch.

It's like stepping over donuts to pick up dog turds.

Now I need to get out the most current rule book I have and take a quick read.
 
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