Weight Transfer and Suspensions

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sefus

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I've been thinking of what it will take to make our Abodies transfer weight and learning about setting up a suspension and want to see what some of you can tell me on the old (or new) standard tricks and mods. I dont have 4 corner scales now but could have some avalible if I need em. Obviously I have the battery in the back, sub frames are connected but stuff like sway bars and boxed control arms and ???? are getting to my limit of setting up a drag suspension. I do have 3 way adjustable shocks in the rear and will have to figure those out. My pinion angle is set although I'm running a blank at what its at. I want to say negative 10 degrees but really cant remmeber off hand. So waht can yall tell me?

Thanks!

-Sefus
 
Is this a drag car or a street car or a street/strip car?


Sounds like you are on the right track. Mabby some S/S springs on the rear or a set of caltracks with mono leafs wroks well. A set of 90/10 front shocks on the front. Some people like to run a slant six T bar to help with weight transfer. Take all the weight you can off of the front of the car. If you don't need i get rid of it. If you need it can It be lighened or mabby moved back to the trunk. Mabby a set of light weight wheel for the front and some skiny tires to help cut down weight and friction.


I do not run sway bars as they hurt weight transfer and put un needed weight on the car as do boxed control arms. They don't need boxed. You could run some tube upper control arms though. They will give you more ajustment options for setting up the front end.


Some of these mods may not do so well on the street but there they are.

Good luck.
 
Yeah I definetly need to get the new front shocks, thanks for the reminder. I went on a big weight savings with this car (minus the RAMM sound deadener) and am always looking to save on anything that wont make it too terribly uncomftorable as it is a 30/70 street strip car. Thats means I still have a heater and wiper motor. I do have some 6 inch skinnys for the front too.

OK so need to find some /6 torsion bars and look for tube upper control arms but leave the lowers alone. Sweet!

-Sefus
 
spend the money on the shocks. Get a 12 way adjustable front and back. Get doubles if you can afford them. The rears help transfer weight too so dont just focus on the fronts.
 
MP offers a set of smaller T bars than the 6 cylinder cars had/have.

I don't know how far you want to go and money...oh, that M word! It can get to be a nasty item quick. I like the idea of tube front arms. But you can also do the K-frame in this fashion to save more weight.

The lack of sway bars helps in weight. I don't have any on my Duster. The car was built without them. The boxed control arms and torque box's at the rear of the car add weight, but also help keep the car right. Catch 22. Better to have them I think.
 
Any of you guys ever cut/remove the upper bumpstops to get more front end travel?
 
Oh yeah and Im on super stock springs.

I always liked the idea of boxing the rear torque boxes. Im not worried about ounces or even a pound or two as long as I have reliability, efficiency and whatever just plain works better than it was.

As for the money its a long term hobby car so I put dollars into it every once in a while. I run it as is, then upgrade a part here and there, so its not a huge chunk all at once.

I dont think I'll go with a tublar K member but will end up with a fiberglass cowl hood so that should take some weight off the front.
 
I was gonna mention fiberglass, but I didn't know if it was a budgeted idae.
 
sefus said:
Oh yeah and Im on super stock springs.

I always liked the idea of boxing the rear torque boxes. Im not worried about ounces or even a pound or two as long as I have reliability, efficiency and whatever just plain works better than it was.

As for the money its a long term hobby car so I put dollars into it every once in a while. I run it as is, then upgrade a part here and there, so its not a huge chunk all at once.

I dont think I'll go with a tublar K member but will end up with a fiberglass cowl hood so that should take some weight off the front.
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Torque boxes are a good thing to have on all four corners. I don't think boxed lower arms are needed on a strait line car though. Mabby if it was a road race hadeling car then I would see boxing them for that but I don't think there could be a lot of load on them just going in a strait line. But that is ust me. You coud put a pinion snubber on too but a lot of the time a car with S/S springs does not need them because S/S springs make the rear of the car rise making the snubber usless as it will not hit the floor. I would go to the track and see how the car does before deciding if you need one or not.
 
Burntorange70 said:
Torque boxes are a good thing to have on all four corners. I don't think boxed lower arms are needed on a strait line car though. Mabby if it was a road race hadeling car then I would see boxing them for that but I don't think there could be a lot of load on them just going in a strait line. But that is ust me. You coud put a pinion snubber on too but a lot of the time a car with S/S springs does not need them because S/S springs make the rear of the car rise making the snubber usless as it will not hit the floor. I would go to the track and see how the car does before deciding if you need one or not.
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I thought the snubber works in conjunction with the design of the SS springs helping to push the rearend down and plant it towards the track while the springs make sure the traction is even?
 
The snubber keeps the rear end from turning up from the torque of your engine; thus, preserving the geometry of your drive train...this is easier on u-joints and such.
 
flyfish said:
The snubber keeps the rear end from turning up from the torque of your engine; thus, preserving the geometry of your drive train...this is easier on u-joints and such.
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i understand that...but by doing this is it working against the ss springs? or is it working with them providing a greater benefit...i always assumed it was beneficial to combine the two
 
mshred said:
i understand that...but by doing this is it working against the ss springs? or is it working with them providing a greater benefit...i always assumed it was beneficial to combine the two
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Don't get me wrong it can be beneficial. S/S springs are desined to try and pick up the body of the car. That pushes the rear end down making for mor traction. So if the body is going up it is getting ferther from the rear end and the snubber. If you watch a car with S/S springs you will see the body can rise as much as 3 inches. Allso S/S's have a stifer front sagment on them so axel windup is not as bad then on other springs.


Now that is not to say a snubber would not do some good. It is hard t know unless you go to the track and see what your car is doing. A snubber will not hurt anything it just may not be working fully with S/S's on the car.

Now I am no pro on this. Just saying what I have read and been told buy some locle racers.
 
seeing how i dont have gobs of money lying around i just went with /6 torsion bars,90/10 front, adjustable rear, and battery in trunk, deleted everything in front heater...wiper and so on and started going fiberglass.
And someone mentioned cutting out the bumpstops which unfortuatly dosnt work because even with the bumpstops out thats were the a-arms bassically are at there max so they dont travel farther then that anyway the bumpstops are just there as a backup-saftey kind of thing so you dont break parts. I had alot of issues due to fenderwell headers/tire clearence because i had to use my torsion bars to jack up my front end and then i didnt have the throwback transfer. Funny thing is when i had the old beat up shocks they worked great because they just let that front end come up like it was nothing and now the 90/10s have some resistance but they also dont let it come down rite away,
Good set of shocks and springs and weight distribution is really the basics.
 
Aerospace componets makes a light weight fully retractable brakes, I have them on my 71 Dart I race, they weight somthing like 8lbs. Also Caltracks are deffiently worth the money as I also have them.
 
I didn't read every thread to this question, however, when you talk about Super Stock springs and using pinion snubbers, you are talking about technology that is 40 years old.

The starting spot is with GOOD adjustable shocks, front and back. Cal Tracs and split monoleaf springs from Cal Trac. Set your rear springs on stiff, and work from there. Pretty soon, you will look for ways to move static weight forward on you car, like I have.

tn_0906-06157[1].jpg
 
Poison Dart said:
I didn't read every thread to this question, however, when you talk about Super Stock springs and using pinion snubbers, you are talking about technology that is 40 years old.

The starting spot is with GOOD adjustable shocks, front and back. Cal Tracs and split monoleaf springs from Cal Trac. Set your rear springs on stiff, and work from there. Pretty soon, you will look for ways to move static weight forward on you car, like I have.
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doesnt mean that its bad though...it can be 100 years old, but what works is what works...may not be as good as the new technology of cal tracs, but for the money it works just as good now as it did 40 years ago...I hear that using worn out long truck shocks are work best with the super stock leaf setups as well
 
The adjustable snubber was never intended to be used with SS springs. It was a device to use if you didn't have SS springs. So automatic cars with SS springs don't need a snubber. A high powered stick car should have something just for safety reasons but it shouldn't actually touch anything unless something breaks.

The CalTrac setup with the split mono leafs and adjustable shocks is a good intermediate setup, or if you have to keep leaf springs because of class rules. They have a good bit of adjustment possibilities and in a lower power setup are probably better than ladder bars because they have more adjustment.

If you really want to get serious than a four link suspension is really the only logical choice but it would also entail the most money and modifications to your car. If you are making more than 600 HP though you are already pretty serious so it should be something you seriously consider. The CalTracs while good, definetely have their limitations and if you race at a track that might not be the best those limitations are going to be magnified 5x.
 
Guitar Jones said:
The adjustable snubber was never intended to be used with SS springs. It was a device to use if you didn't have SS springs. So automatic cars with SS springs don't need a snubber. A high powered stick car should have something just for safety reasons but it shouldn't actually touch anything unless something breaks.
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Not sure i understand what you mean when you say a stick car should have something for safety reasons but shouldnt touch anything unless something breaks...can you clarify what you mean by that? also, and maybe i just have bad memory, but i thought the chassis manual recommends setting cars for track use with both a pinion snubber and SS springs?
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I'm saying a stick car should have some type of pinion snubber just in case a spring perch breaks or something so the axle doesn't completely wrap up but it shouldn't actually hit the floor under normal circumstances because that would be defeating the purpose of the SS springs.
 
Guitar Jones said:
I'm saying a stick car should have some type of pinion snubber just in case a spring perch breaks or something so the axle doesn't completely wrap up but it shouldn't actually hit the floor under normal circumstances because that would be defeating the purpose of the SS springs.
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With non SS springs having the snubber adjusted to hit the floorpan on hard acceleration is desirable though correct? because instead of the SS springs doing planting of the rear end downwards and the body lifting it would be the snubber doing it?
 
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