What do you guys think?

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4mulaSvaliant

4mulaSvaliant

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Hey guys I have recently gotten my valiant on the road again after replacing a host of things including the trans and rear dif.
So I picked up a low mile 904 and stuck a TF2 kit in it. I know I payed strict attention to the instructions and read them several times before attempting and then several times prior to each step. This leads me to believe I didnt damage the trans my self.
Here is what is going on.
I took the car onto the interstate for the first time since the new trans install and all was going well as I accelerated through the on ramp and merged with traffic. The trans shifted just fine as I let it shift on its own, but I noticed something was screwy, I was well into 3rd gear and it felt like the brakes were dragging, because the car felt as if it was working harder than normal to move. As I continued on, the feeling disapeered fairly quickly. I felt this only one more time as I left a parking lot that same day, this time the speed would have been much slower. It acted the same though.

Now the other thing I have added was an 8 3/4 sure grip rear. Ill be honest I dont know enough about the rear to diagnose whether it may be the rear or the trans. Any ideas?

Oh and when I put the rear in I of course put new lube in it and I added a bottle of "posi" addidtive. Hope that was ok! Hate to have messed this rear up! For some reason as I write this Im beginning to think it may be the rear! Damn!:angry7:
 
What gears are in your rear now? I noticed a big differance in my car as well. 727 with TF-2 and 3:91. Firsty, I thought my brakes were dragging holding me back or something was wrong. After talking to the guys...the lower gears and trans shift kit changes things a lot.....shifting, kickdown, govenor sure-grip, gears ect. Because the shift points are so much tighter and higher, if you were to take your foot off the acc just before a shift into 3rd for say..the rear and trans seems to hold her back. If your in 3rd already and she drops or feels a drag...could be your lower gears. If in 3rd...and you drop the hammer, do you have excellent get up and go?? I just love the way mine is now. I think it's just something you have to get use to..."just like a new women" LOL
I'm sure other guys will also have some input, but I don't think you have trans problems.

Motor 3.JPG
 
Well after thinking a bit more about it I am wondering if I have a brake issue.
When I put the rear in, I replaced the entire brake package with all new stuff. Wheel cylinders and all, brake lines too! So then I was bleeding them and realized the left frt bleed screw was broken off. I was already having pulling issues to that side under hard braking. So at this point I am wondering if maybe I have a brake issue with some sort of residual pressure, soon after the brake pedal has been released. I plan to replace the front wheel cylinders anyway, so I guess Ill start there!

As for the rear gears I have modest 3:23s. As for the torque converter, I have learned recently that I should have done more research before just picking a "stock" specs Converter. I wonder if the TF2 kit and the "stock" specs of the converter are not a good match and that is maybe part of the issue as well? Sounds like thats a possibilty by the tendencies you have described. HMMMMMMM
Thx for your input Jim.
 
4mulaSvaliant said:
Well after thinking a bit more about it I am wondering if I have a brake issue.
When I put the rear in, I replaced the entire brake package with all new stuff. Wheel cylinders and all, brake lines too! So then I was bleeding them and realized the left frt bleed screw was broken off. I was already having pulling issues to that side under hard braking. So at this point I am wondering if maybe I have a brake issue with some sort of residual pressure, soon after the brake pedal has been released. I plan to replace the front wheel cylinders anyway, so I guess Ill start there!

As for the rear gears I have modest 3:23s. As for the torque converter, I have learned recently that I should have done more research before just picking a "stock" specs Converter. I wonder if the TF2 kit and the "stock" specs of the converter are not a good match and that is maybe part of the issue as well? Sounds like thats a possibilty by the tendencies you have described. HMMMMMMM
Thx for your input Jim.
Click to expand...

Could be wrong, but my guess is that a TF-2 and a stock convertor should make no differance? I have a 2500 stall and you know it at about 60 MPH when dropping the hammer! Really springs into action. Your gear are not very deep so I don't think there a problem with that. As far as your rear brakes...will they spin by hand with just a tad of pressure Jacked up, of course! If there adjusted correctly....Hmmmm, hard to see that being a problem. Also, you could go for a quick run around the block, then feel your rim for over heat? Check all four to see if there's a differance.
 
Jim, I do have to agree with you though, the TF2 kit is absolutly sweet! I love the fact that my car barks the tires when shifting! I think its kinda intimidating to some people. The damn import scene has no idea what thats about! The guys with newer Krustangs Im sure, are wondering as well.

I finally got a chance to do a fat burn out the other day and man I was lovin it. So was my 5 year old son! Got to start em off right!
( He won a Mopar hat the other day at a club meeting and wouldnt take it off all day!!!!!!!! F-in' sweet! lol)
 
Ok so it happened again, and it was at high speed again. I was moving about 65 or so and some dude pulls up next to me in a caprice with 24" wheels and starts taunting me. So I look over, grin, drop it into 2nd and hammer down, well needless to say I walked away from him, but just as I was beginning to ease up on the gas I felt the "drag" again. So I am still at a loss for where it is coming from. I have eliminated the brakes from the equasion, so it is down thto the rear or the trans.
By the discriptions that Jim has given I am thinking it may be the trans/kit. Because as I write this I am thinking that it was very possible that the first time this happened, that I was just begining to let off the throttle. In the first case I was pretty much up to the speed I wanted so I backed off the gas, in this case tonight, I had gotten up to about 80 and backed off the gas, both have that one thing in common. As I reply I cant read or recall whether these things fit Jims testomonials. Have to read em again! Anyway what do you guys make of this mess?

On a side note: A good way to see exactly how well your car rides is to run it on the Interstate, you feel and hear many more things than on the street. I have a very slow howling vibration, not sure what that is. maybe the gears? Heard the gears making alot of racket back there.Now this is the longest trip the valiant has had on the interstate thus far, and to hear Gears Meshing is not my favorite noise. I have blown a rear on the interstate before and F-that! Also I had a confirmation on a well known topic. Air Shocks SUCK! This is the main reason I have the other post concering the torsion bar adjustments. I have V-8 leafs but they are a little saggy, so I used airsocks to level everything out. Well they suck So I may just remove them and drp the front since I want it lower anyhow.
Ahh the trial and tribulations!!!!! LMAO:cheers: Whatcha' gonna do?
 
If ya don't get an answer fron anyone, give fishy a PM. He pretty good on the trans stuff and TF-2 kits. Don't forget to let us know if there is a problem or PM me as well.
Thanks, Jim
 
Check the actual shift linkage. Almost sounds like you're getting 2 gears at once. Happened to me once when using an aftermarket shifter. A little adjustment and it went away.
 
Another thought! I can "slowly" cruise in 2nd @ about 15-1700 RPM before she shifts maybe into 3rd. Now I know you have 3:23 gears, however depending on your speed could she be down shifting on you when you let up on the gas. I know it's unlikely! but do you have a tach? When she holds back on you are your RPMs coming up?
PS I have (2) 8.75 sure-grips and there both kinda noisy "hummmm". Turn up the radio or louder pipes.
 
Great input guys thx.

Well as for the RPMs they seem to ever so slightly drop, I mean very little!
Forgive me If I write as I think it here. I guess if the car starts to drag down but the motor doesnt, it could be either the cones in the rear doing something funny or (like suggested) maybe it is trying to catch another gear and is slighty slipping allowing the revs to sustain, while slowing down the drivetrain attempting to catch a lower gear? Sound like a possiblity?

I do have a B&M Star shifter, that I just had to adjust recently. Hmmmmm sounds like a good place to check. Thx! I had to adjust it because it wasnt catching all the gears. The throw of the shifter itself seems to be a bit shorter than the trans. I have the correct B&M linkage arm on the trans but I think they need to make it about an 1/8" longer. The adjustment for the cable only allows you to adjust the total throw back and forth not actually adjust the amount to make it larger or smaller. Almost pointless, they could just make the holes longer that bolt the bracket to the trans.

I need to do little research into the workings of that rear. I understand how the cone works but havent looked at how it all works together. Im usually pretty good at problem solving if I understand how it all functions. I am thinking that because of what the RPMs are doing that it is something to do with the trans.:sad5: Hopefully just an adjustment.
 
Ok so I went and educated myself as for the workings of the cone type sure grip that I have. I realize that the rear isnt going to be the cause of the lagging I have felt. However it does explain the occasional one tire fryer action. I thought it was supposed to be a full time "posi" not just a limited slip. My cones may be in need of machining soon. They seem to be ok for the time being, because if I really nail it they both light up no problem. Just seems to fry one tire in a slight turn.
Anyhow I finally eliminated (by education and your comments) that it may have been the rear.
So now Im on to figure out what can be happening in the trans. Ill start with the shifter linkage. Later guys and thx for your help.
 
i had a sprag going out ripping the case and it felt like what he is saying. any mettalic in the tranny fluid.feel like the brakes are on when you put it in gear without your foot on the pedal. also check the rubber brake hoses .When they go bad sometimes they dont release the fluid pressure off the calipers.
 
ok guys , well I know this will seem inconsistant but! I just took it out and this time I tried to make it happen. Well I succeded. Here is what the situation was. I ran it up to about 70 or so (wrong speedo gears) and was still given' it gas when sure enough it happened. OK here are the specifics.
It came on gradually. and got progessively more drag. I let off the gas for a sec to se if it would change and it just slowed the car til it gradually went away just as it came on. So the next thing I tried was to drop it in to second and bring the RPMs up to the same area attempting to get the same reaction in 2nd. Didnt happen though. So it is only in 3rd around 70 mph at 4500 RPMs or there about. I havent shifted this thing any higher than 5200 since I put it back together, so I know the Rpms werent too high.
So what do we think now guys?
This makes me wonder that in the other 2 incidents that maybe my rpms were just hitting that point OR the speed was nearing that same point aswell, and that deceleration isnt playing a part as I was beginning to think.
Throw Back some info guys thx!
 
Hey just a thought! Is there any reason a band may slip as the revs of the internals got higher? In other words as the actuall drive train revolutions get higher, and the rotating assembly in the trans moving faster, is there some part in there that can be applying pressure to the rotating assembly because of the high revs?
 
Ok well I have been doing some research and what I have found is there are a few possibilities concerning trans related issues that it could be.

1st. the throttle pressure linkage not being adjusted correctly, which may allow extra pressure to come from the govener valve and pass through the throttle valve. This is a possibilty BUT Im not sure what the excess pressure would be doing once it got past the throttle valve. ANY HELP HERE?

2nd. What if the trans fluid happened to be a little low and at that RPM the pump began to starve for fluid? This would allow the rpms to raise still but the entire rotating assembly to cause drag! Sound reasonable?

Im going to check these few things (hopefully) today. These are two items I would think are ok, BUT who knows, this is where all the little adjustments and whatnot come into play. I mean the motor and trans were completely out as well as all the linkage being removed. This is a different trans also.
I am pretty sure I have the trans dipstick tube seated all the way in.
Well Im off to check a few things.
Get back to me if you guys agree/disagree or have a brainstorm with the added info here.
Thx :wave:
 
Sounds to me like a band is applying while in third. Probably the front band as the rear band applying would be reverse and probably much more violent.

The front band is second gear only along with the rear clutches. The rear clutches are applied in all forward gears so they aren't your problem. Third gear requires the application of the front clutches and release of the front band. If the band isn't releasing then the trans is trying to lock up in two gears at once. The fact that you held it in second and didn't get the condition tells me front band apply/release issues are the cause. Why? I don't know.
The most likely scenario is the valve body modification though. Try throwing a stock valve body in there and see if the problem goes away.
 
4mulaSvaliant said:
Common people "throw me a frickin bone here" lol
Anybody have any input here?
Click to expand...

I forgot to fill my tranny back up once after an engine swap(I don't remember what I did only that I spilled half the fluid for it on the floor) and it acted just like that till I figured out that I forgot to fill it back up.
 
Hey thx guys. Ok well I got some other info from Jim implying the similar situation concerning the bands. Also I went and checked the fluid level before driving it again. It was a bit low. However It did occur once again after filling it.

Hmmm question: The band is pressure driven correct? And is that pressure regulated by the throttle pressure valve? Because as I stated before, if I do not have the linkage adjusted correctly then there is pressure comming from the pump side when the throttle pressure linkage should have closed that flow. If this is the case then would be possible that the pressure from the pump that may be making it past that valve is actuating the band?

In other words if my linkage is not closing that valve, then pressure from the pump is still getting past. Does that pressure actuate the band?

This kinda makes sence to me because as the rpms raise so does the trans pressure in turn causeing a decent amount of pressure at that speed.

However I just started to research all the workings of the trans so I may be headed in the wrong direction here.
 
While I have done plenty of reading on this topic lately I cannot find where the pressure goes after the govenor. Does the pressure go to the pistons which actuate the band?


Ok also I just realized that because I have been having fun shifting the trans on my own, I wasnt thinking about the fact that it hasnt been down shifting on its own if I just leave it in 3rd and smash the pedal. Leading me once again to believe I need to adjust the kick down linkage.

One thing though. as my throttle pressure arm on the trans is all the way forward, the link that attatches to it and then travels up to the next pivot point at the bell housing near the starter, hits the pivot itself. It is held to far forward by the arm on the trans. Im not sure whether I have the type that has the slide adjustment where its attatched to the arm. If so Ill have to move it a bit and then readjust all the upper part of the linkage.
Im wondering could the kick down be causing my problem?
 
OK here we go Ill list the issues to make it easier to understand.

1. 3rd, gear 65-70mph, 4500 rpms, causes pretty bad "drag" as if brakes are applied.

2. Will not "drag" under same rpms in 2nd.

3. Will not "kick down" into passing gear if smashed to the floor. (only did one time)

4. If I leave it in drive and slowly accelerate from a stop it will not shift into second.

5. about 30% of the time, it will not shift from 1st to 2nd even if manualy shifted. Even if I let off the gas and then reapply, itll still be in 1st. I have to put it in "N" then back into 3rd.

6.And most recently noticed, this trans has less than 200 miles on it since I installed the TF2 kit. It was! barking the tires when down shifting into 1st, however with the last 2 times I took it out and dropped it into 1st expecting a little "bark" it just eases into 1st as if I never had put the kit in. Just like stock!


So with all this said, any more thoughts? There is a little new info here this time. I just thought they were several different issues but I dont seem to be getting anywhere yet! lol, Im glad I dont have to rely on this car daily, I dont wanna burn up the trans.

:munky2:
 
Uh time to drop the pan and have a look-see. Sounds like the drag might be a partial apply of something else. If I recall, in 3rd the front clutch gets pressure only.

The fact that you seem to have multiple malfunctions points to the valve body. Not sure whats going on, but a thorough cleaning and inspection might help. Hope you find something.
 
OK, more info for you,

the valve body is screwed up. Agian just in case you didn't catch it, the valve body is screwed up.

Put a stock one back in it to test and then if everything is OK you can try and figure out where the major malfunction is, not before.
 
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