SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
Not sure yet gotta yank it out
Anybody use clutch tamer
- Thread starter SlantedDart
- Start date
-
j par
Well-hung Member
LOL... I new that was you...
I know they kicked you off as mad scientist years ago and definitely kicked you off as yellow rose but I didn't think you had worn out rat basted yet...
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Are you running an 18 spline 4 speed? I have a fresh from RAM rebuilt HD w/ a new disc if you go that direction. If you car has a QT bell with mechanical clutch linkage mounting. I had issues with thag POS for three season and sat out 2024 waitung for a Browell.
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Could you two stop diluting every manual transmission thread with the bickering? The adults are trying to talk shop : D
As always both of your technical opinions are appreciated and welcome.
Your pal,
J
j par
Well-hung Member
Really @weedburner is the only one you absolutely need to listen to on this subject. As he's the one who masterminded the whole idea, built it, developed it, the whole nine yards..Could you two stop diluting every manual transmission thread with the bickering? The adults are trying to talk shop : D
As always both of your technical opinions are appreciated and welcome.
Your pal,
J
And one nice helpful person....
As far as a body install, I did post a link there and it does have quite a few people with quite a few pictures...
As far as mad yellow rat turk.... lol..
I haven't poke the bear in a couple years now, l o l...
I'll just put this latest version of him on Ignore like I have all the other versions and put the chaos to an end...Right here...
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
Have a tkx 5 speed trans 26 spline 1-1/8
j par
Well-hung Member
Is it leaking yet...
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
No not that I know of
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
I feel that any relevant experience that can be shared will be beneficial to the small group of stick shift guys that are left out there. The very cool thing that weed burner brings to the table is data to back up his statements.
I have three season on my GTS with a tamer and there is no discrediting that. As I said 2024 is a wash because of the QuickTime rm6073 failing miserably.
If we didn't share our direct experience there would not be much point in having a message board would it? Well I guess it would serve for some of our antisocial members to pointlessly bicker in public. Surely everyone wants to listen to that crap over technical information from people's direct experience.... oh wait no they don't.
Naysayers and negative Nancy's stay home. LOL that goes for the racetrack too as far as I'm concerned.
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Shoot.. sorry I can't be of more help. I moved to a 10-in defiant for this next rendition and the power grip HD is in the dust collecting room on the dust collecting shelf
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
Got er out. Welded to pressure plate side. Fly wheel is perfect still. I thought the organic side would be wasted? Not sure what direction to go. I feel that the duel will take the heat but will be over clutched. The adjustable one uses a sintered iron disk which is hard on the street from what I hear. I’d rather have a real adjustable clutch but it’s about 90% street driven.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
I learned this a long time ago the hard way.
That’s exactly what happens to sintered BRONZE when you slip it very much.
IIRC one of the very first trade names for sintered bronze was Vel-V-touch or similar.
You can not slip that materiel very much or it does exactly what you are seeing. It can’t take the heat.
That’s why there is sintered IRON discs. They will take the intense heat caused by the application of the clutch. Or if you slip it.
There is a HUGE difference between applying the clutch and slipping it and they ain’t the same.
I don’t know what to tell you about what to do that won’t cause massive butthurt and much wailing and gnashing of teeth but even Ray Charles can see you’ve got issues.
If you go back to what you are doing expect the exact same results.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Never agree with a poser. The results are posted above. Of course many posers on here are a protected class.
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
I knew this set up wasn’t going to last very long after my first track outing.. things escalated quickly after I made my first pass.
As far a my butt is concerned. I know an iron type disk is the way to go. I KNOW I need a real adjustable clutch in this car but wanted to see if I could get away with a slip devise for a little before I break open the check book. May give Cale a call at black magic and see what we can come up with. I don’t have a problem climbing under the car to adjust base ect when it’s time to go to the track/ street. Drag and drive guys do it, I can do it. Just need some guidance.
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
Trying to understand this reply. Who’s the poser?
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
I have a very good source who says Cale doesn’t have many parts left to make a Borg & Beck/Long cover adjustable. If you can even find one of those covers any more.
You can call McLeod but my good source says most of the dudes answering the phone won’t even know what a BB/L cover is.
I’m sure Cale has some 10.5 inch Long covers that are adjustable but they ain’t cheap.
There is also Advanced Clutches on Idaho. Rob Youngblood. Like Cale, he is a stick racer. Again, not cheap.
I don’t have a good answer for you. It might help if you can get a sintered bronze disc with more surface area to help with heat. But that would be a crutch at best.
I have never done it but you may be able to use a sintered iron disc with what you already have for a pressure plate.
It will take the heat but I’ve never driven a car with a clutch tamer on the street so I’m not sure with as much plate load as these “modern” covers have may make it miserable to drive on the street.
That would be something to ask Grant about. He may have used a SI disc and knows what it’s like. Or maybe he knows of a better disc you can use than what you have and won’t be miserable to drive on the street.
I don’t like suggesting things to do I have not done. I do use a soft lock clutch on the street and it drives better than any clutch I’ve ever used, but you have to know certain things or you can hurt it pretty quickly.
Things like driving it on a trailer can kill it. You can trash one in one bad burnout (BTDT) and the track guys treat sticks and leaky automatics the same when prepping the water box.
I hate to see guys fighting clutches like this. It wastes money and time and kills parts.
And this is why guys quit running sticks. The vast majority of guys throwing out advice have never raced a stick car. Or they did it when tires were still wooden.
I was at the track last August and as usual I watched damn near every car in the stick class beating the tire and the car to death.
And they listen to guys who can’t drive a stick but they damn sure tell you what to do with authority. Ignore them.
I think I’d call Grant and ask him if a sintered iron disc will work with the clutch tamer on the street. I can’t think of a scenario where it wouldn’t work on the track but I just do not know.
I hope you get this sorted out before you go broke trying. Or you quit.
I hate to see that.
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input. Im definitely going to reach out to some people that race clutch cars. When my car worked for that one pass it was too much fun can’t quit now haha. I’ll update soon
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
There is nothing in the world like a nice clean pass with a stick. Nothing. I knew when I was 12 I was buying a stick car because I rode dirt bikes and I learned very quickly that a 5 speed was better than a 4 speed. And 4 is better than 3.
It frustrates me to know end the bad advice people give out. It’s not just here either. It’s everywhere. It’s even the clutch companies.
I was told by a very reliable source that he called Ram clutches and some idiotic jack *** told him to use a 6 paddle disc for his street/strip car!!
That is a sintered bronze disc and it’s a parts breaking pile of steaming monkey dung. I know that the smart people at Ram know better. Or maybe not.
I had some questions about a certain disc they make. I had seen a picture of it and it looked very good to my eyes. But there was a question on how thick the disc was.
My guess off the top of my head was .320-.330 thick and I still think a used sintered iron disc can get down to .300 or .290.
Anyway, I called Ram because it’s their disc and the dude that answered the phone could not grasp I wanted disc thickness. He was asking about diameter, the thickness of the hub.
He finally said he run out to the shop to measure one for me. I appreciate that much effort because he didn’t have to do it.
He comes back on the phone and says .190 thou. I’m stumped how it could be that thin. The finger would be so high I doubt you could get any free play.
When I was dumbfounded by his answer and he says “yeah .190 thou…that’s almost a quarter inch”!!! I was about to say it’s way closer to 3/16 but I changed my mind and wrote the entire conversation off.
The guy who has the disc measured it and his disc was .332 thou.
I mean how does a company like Ram allow a guy who can’t take a simple measurement answer the phone? I assume it’s because they can’t use him in the shop.
And for the record I’ve used a Ram 6 paddle disc. I’ve also used their 3 paddle disc. Both were massive parts killers.
The ONLY good thing about that 3 paddle disc is the weight. It’s LIGHT. As rpm goes up, disc weight becomes more critical. That’s why with a full organic disc you probably will need to slick shift the box to shift above 7k.
If you have a sintered iron disc you WILL need to do it.
That Ram 3 paddle disc will shift at 9k rpm like butter with ALL the syncros in it. If you had it locked up at the bottom of the gear change (by not using an adjustable clutch or a clutch tamer to keep the clutch from locking up in the gear change) it would break 3rd gear so fast you couldn’t stop it.
I broke enough of them (I’m a slow learner) that I could feel it in my foot. I was never quick enough to stop the breakage but I could feel the beginning of the end. And the end was before the clutch was all the way out.
SlantedDart
Well-Known Member
Well I’ll be staying away from the single disk bronze deal obviously doesn’t work no matter if it’s on one side or both. My thought process is that if you’re familiar with coyote stock NMRA they have to use a diaphragm clutch. So I need some insight on what they are using. I’ve heard SI disc which I now know is the way to go. But what’s the rest of the formula? they leave at about 7k and let the tamer do the rest. They also have faceplated trans which may be in the works. But I’m making a little bit more power then them and kinda want to keep it a diaphragm just for simplicity but if I can’t I can’t.
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
I don't understand your poetry : D
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Sintered bronze on both sides works. You simply overheated it. I see signs of material transfer at inspection every season. It's never been that bad.
I run bias plys fwiw.
-
