Cheepy Three-Sixty build
- Thread starter RAMM
- Start date
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Following. Thanks for sharing your buildThere is a lot of things that is just not necessary on a low budget build........unless you own a machine shop.......then it's just plain crazy not too!!!
As far as main line hone, my machine shop did it for free on my first motor. After i got the short block together, i called them up and ask if it was normal for the torque wrench to go over 100 foot pound before the crank would start turning.
I took it back and they fix the problem. Not everyone needs one, but some need it REALLY BAD!!!!
As far as main line hone, my machine shop did it for free on my first motor. After i got the short block together, i called them up and ask if it was normal for the torque wrench to go over 100 foot pound before the crank would start turning.
I took it back and they fix the problem. Not everyone needs one, but some need it REALLY BAD!!!!
ir3333
Well-Known Member
excellent!
You have one kicking around and like the Crane H-272?
what do you expect your static compression ratio will be 9.5:1 or greater?
You have one kicking around and like the Crane H-272?
what do you expect your static compression ratio will be 9.5:1 or greater?
RAMM
Well-Known Member
I expect comp to come in just under 10 @ 9.8 which may be pushing it. 400 hp is a lofty goal from where I'm sitting. J.Rob
400 is possible with that small camshaft, using 1.6 rockers (.480/.510) and having the heads work well.
Intake tract is the make or break on this one for 400hp
Intake tract is the make or break on this one for 400hp
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RAMM
Well-Known Member
You're reading my mind,definitely going with 1.6 rockers and the heads will be worked for a flow rate of 230-240 cfm with a strong .300-.400" being of primary importance. I may have to break the bank on the valvetrain-but it should illustrate nicely of where to invest your $$$. J.Rob
joec
Well-Known Member
400 hp with that cam- 112 lsa ,not a single pattern, not 1 in of lift,not a custom,not real mopar lobes, no aftermarket heads, say it aint so!!!.In all seriousness though, RAMM your advice and builds are excellent. I for one would hate to lose your free and down to earth advice here.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Whoa that's kinda bad! I put the crank in and torque it all down with Plastigage; check the p-gage for clearance. If good, then torque the crank in again; if it spins free with an easy twist of the hand, then it is good. (Good enough that I have never had any issues or odd bearing wear).
dirty white boy
50 yr old Juvenal delinquent
if the crank dont spin easy still dont mean block needs line bored, could be a bent crank!! sposed to check line bore with a straight edge and feeler gauge's with caps torqued down, if it ant right,right it!! plasta gauge is ol skool,.dail bore calipers!!!
RAMM
Well-Known Member
This is true but easily verified by putting a dial indicator on the #3 main journal and turning the crank. @Cudafever--if your crank truly needed 100 ft/lbs to turn I would want to know why. I would suspect a MAJOR problem like .010" bearings on a standard journal or worse--cracked main bolt holes allowing the bore to distort irreparably I might add. I use Plasti-gauge in a pinch but I have seen it tell me clearances are tight when they're not and tell me clearances are loose when they aren't. When direct measurements aren't available feel becomes VERY valuable. I don't really want to convolute this thread but this may become relevant when I lay the crank in and possibly encounter a problem. J.Rob
T56MaxTorq
Well-Known Member
If you wanna get weird with it, try a draw thru turbo setup:
Stock block
Stock low compression pistons
Stock heads
Stock 4bbl intake
Draw thru turbo adapters
Used turbo
Stock log style exhaust manifolds
Low duration truck cam
Universal wastegate
Use any carb!
Use an HEI 5 pin and ground the little pin via a relay and Hobbs switch at 4psi boost to retard ignition 10 degrees.
No intercooler
No blow off
No boost friendly carb
Stock block
Stock low compression pistons
Stock heads
Stock 4bbl intake
Draw thru turbo adapters
Used turbo
Stock log style exhaust manifolds
Low duration truck cam
Universal wastegate
Use any carb!
Use an HEI 5 pin and ground the little pin via a relay and Hobbs switch at 4psi boost to retard ignition 10 degrees.
No intercooler
No blow off
No boost friendly carb
RAMM
Well-Known Member
While that would be fun, that is not the road I'm going down. J.Rob
I had an old beam torque wrench, and it would take 100 foot pounds to break it loose. With all the assembly lube(white grease) took a lot less torque after the initial movement of the crank. If you let it set for more and a couple of minutes, it took that much again to begin it to turn.
This was a rotating assembly(with piston and rods rear main seal cam and timing chain). Not just the crank in by itself.
I have always asked the machinist, on every motor i have build sence, to check the line bore. That first motor was the only one that had this problem.
It was a .060 over 340
It wasn't a bearing problem because they only wanted the block and crank back. I keep the bearing rods piston exc.
this is also the block that i cracked a cyl wall and figured out it had a BAD core shift in it, several year later.
The only other crank problem i have had, with a crank was with my most recent stroker eng that had 0 trust, do to screw in studs for the main caps......but that's a whole ether story.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
You are right; p-gage can show tight or loose if things are well bent or well out of alignment, and whether the tight or loose is on the side where the p-gage is placed. Maybe I just have been lucky with blocks....
A cheapie 360 build:
Basic (cheapest) machine work
Tanked
Bored
Honed (no plate)
Checked mains, they were good
Same ugly Pistons that you have
Decked to a true 9:1
Resized rods with new bolts
Isky mega 292 cam
273 rockers
235 CFM 587 heads
Eddy Performer
Much rubbed on 600 Holley.
OE dizzy w/MSD box
$99 headers
2.5 exhaust with parts store muffs
904 w/2500 converter
3.23 gears
3500 e body
255/60/15 Dunlop GT radials
13.43 @ 108 as driven.
Basic (cheapest) machine work
Tanked
Bored
Honed (no plate)
Checked mains, they were good
Same ugly Pistons that you have
Decked to a true 9:1
Resized rods with new bolts
Isky mega 292 cam
273 rockers
235 CFM 587 heads
Eddy Performer
Much rubbed on 600 Holley.
OE dizzy w/MSD box
$99 headers
2.5 exhaust with parts store muffs
904 w/2500 converter
3.23 gears
3500 e body
255/60/15 Dunlop GT radials
13.43 @ 108 as driven.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
RAMM
Well-Known Member
I've actually built this combo above before but with H116 pistons, '587 heads that went 231 cfm and a .484" purpleshaft and a much monkeyed with TQ. Went 12.599 @ 108 in a 3640 F-body with 3.91's and a clutchflite-had a 1.7 60 foot. That engine made all of 381 HP /417 TQ on a SF-901. J.Rob
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I'll be interested to see what you do with heads on this, RAMM. That is the key....
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Agreed-even I'm unsure of the direction the heads will take. Like I hinted at earlier-I may "bust the budget" on the heads. I may-just may either try and use the G3 Hemi valves or I may go 11/32" Chev 2.02"/1.60" . The only thing I know for sure is Magnum castings will be used and I will try and illustrate how they can be repaired. J.Rob
LowDeck451
Well-Known Member
In a build like this, are the stock Magnum rockers good enough?, not so good ?...... Thanks.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
What happened to the build you were doing with the SFT cam that you had for the EMC deal? Did it hit the back burner?
RAMM
Well-Known Member
It's still underway. J.Rob
Sometimes thes steps are needed and unavoidable. Doing it now at his shop is of no cost and 100% avoidance prep.
If it were a "No cost to you" issue, you would do it on every engine.
Not checking is nutz!
Checking and knowing it is out of wack and NOT doing anything about it makes the insane asylums look like a serious think tank.
Being to cheap to do anything about it, I can not come up with any descriptions on the insanity of it all.
Cheap builds are builds done right and once. Not over again and again.
How anybody here can take pot shots at RAMM for the machining work done to insure a properly done job is unbelievable.
While YOUR BLOCK may not need any of these steps, these steps taken by the builder should be seen as needed for this block.
RAMM, totally digging the build and idea of use of spare parts hanging around. I think I might try this myself. I have plenty of garbage on the wall collecting dust. Not so sure I wanna post the build though.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
It's OK Rumble--no offense taken on my part. I make no apologies for the things I do to MY projects. Your comment about Cheap builds being ones that are done right the first time is very very true. I can't tell you how many times I get a new customer that has already been previously soaked on a build and now I get to pick up the pieces--Oh and the real crappy part is I never get to charge what the previous builder charged either. A good example comes to mind when I built a 318 with EQ heads. His previous "builder" was a hack working out of his garage and charged him something like 16g's for a 318!! That engine didn't make any power and self destructed. He found me and the entire engine was gone through-only thing kept was the oil pan, engine made awesome power and I charged a little over a third of garage guy. J.Rob
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