contact pattern

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I opened the backlash to 8-.010 and run another pattern.



If you guys "in the know" feel the pinion is too deep let me know.









Or whatever I`m open to advice, thanks
 

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Pinion appears to far away. The shim you said that you pulled out from behind the larger race is normal. Some shimmed the bearing behind the bearing on the pinion and some times people add shims behind the race to move the pinion closer to the ring gear. It saved from pulling the bearing off the pinion and potentially damaging it.
 
.......I would also say the pinion is out to far...Can u post a couple of pics of the pinion gear from where its meshing with the crown.....flip the pumpkin upside down for them.........kim.....
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Pinion appears to far away. The shim you said that you pulled out from behind the larger race is normal. Some shimmed the bearing behind the bearing on the pinion and some times people add shims behind the race to move the pinion closer to the ring gear. It saved from pulling the bearing off the pinion and potentially damaging it.
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I realize that, honestly I hav`nt a clue and can`t remember and could`nt see exactly where that piece of shim was jambed in there, I just seen a piece of metal, grabbed it with a needle nose and yanked it out. When disassembling I did`nt see any other remnants of the shim.

oldkimmer said:
.......I would also say the pinion is out to far...Can u post a couple of pics of the pinion gear from where its meshing with the crown.....flip the pumpkin upside down for them.........kim.....
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I think my pics may be decieving , I think the pinion is in pretty deep but is showing up as a smear instead of the bare metal marking, if you look real close, at the previous pics with larger backlash. Here is a couple pics as requested,
I`m not ignoring anyone who`s posted, and thanks for all input
 

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Any shim that was installed behind the back pinion bearing race wouldn't be just a piece of metal jammed in there. It'd be a complete circular shim that fits the back side of the race against the case well. In other words it'll look like the shim behind the bearing but larger. I've found it's easier to read the pattern when you don't use so much marking grease. When it's real thick like you put on it can smear. You don't have to completely remove the grease. Take enough off so it's not smearing out so much and level it out with your grease brush. Really doesn't take a lot of grease. When you get the grease smoothed out rotate it to where it's just about to contact the pinion teeth then hold the pinion yoke with one hand real tight and with the other hand rotate the carrier until the grease patch is completely through then backwards to get the coast pattern. I have never had to apply pressure via any other means than just the resistance I apply by holding the pinion as tight as I can. Hope that makes sense.
 
I've found if you mix a little bit of oil with the yellow pattern paint it is smother and easier to read. And as fishy says don't use as much.
 
It's difficult to see where the pattern is. One tooth looks too far the next looks ok. Try cleanin it up and usin less markin grease like Tracy said. If it's too far out, it sure ain't by much....but it is difficult to tell.
 
fishy68 said:
Any shim that was installed behind the back pinion bearing race wouldn't be just a piece of metal jammed in there. It'd be a complete circular shim that fits the back side of the race against the case well. In other words it'll look like the shim behind the bearing but larger. I've found it's easier to read the pattern when you don't use so much marking grease. When it's real thick like you put on it can smear. You don't have to completely remove the grease. Take enough off so it's not smearing out so much and level it out with your grease brush. Really doesn't take a lot of grease. When you get the grease smoothed out rotate it to where it's just about to contact the pinion teeth then hold the pinion yoke with one hand real tight and with the other hand rotate the carrier until the grease patch is completely through then backwards to get the coast pattern. I have never had to apply pressure via any other means than just the resistance I apply by holding the pinion as tight as I can. Hope that makes sense.
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Yes I realized that after I laid a cone shim against the large race and seen it would just fall through, but a piece was in their, somewhere none the less.
The last pattern was taken with pressure on the yoke like you suggested.
Thanks for you guys checkin back in, I`ll run another pattern tomorrow, little thinner this time. Please check in noonish and opine.
A guy at a parts store was kind enough to let me borrow his personal in.lb. torque wrench and I`ve had it for a week now and would really like to get this thing set so to get the mans tool back8)
 
You shouldn't need the inch lb. torque wrench anymore since you have the pinion bearing preload set. Any pinion depth shims you put in or take out won't affect the preload. That's solely determined by the spacer between the bearings.
 
fishy68 said:
You shouldn't need the inch lb. torque wrench anymore since you have the pinion bearing preload set. Any pinion depth shims you put in or take out won't affect the preload. That's solely determined by the spacer between the bearings.
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OK you just confused the crap out of me with that statement.
I still need it cause I been using the old nut and left out the seal untill it`s determined I don`t need to reshim or not.
Maybe I went about this thing completely wrong, maybe I should explain the whole process I took to set this thing up?
 
mopar head said:
OK you just confused the crap out of me with that statement.
I still need it cause I been using the old nut and left out the seal untill it`s determined I don`t need to reshim or not.
Maybe I went about this thing completely wrong, maybe I should explain the whole process I took to set this thing up?
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Your setting the preload of the bearings. You don't count what the the seal adds. It'll quickly wear in and loosen up. And as long as your torqueing the big nut down properly the preload won't change. If you didn't torque the nut down the preload isn't set up correctly now.
 
OK Fishey, I`d better explain what I did, maybe I`m Fn up.
I installed the sleeve eliminator, it came with various shims.
No instructions. Cass say`s you got to mess with them? So..
I took the most accurate measurements I could and determined the crush sleeve is .014 taller than the elim. I added 2 .008 shims for .016, thinking this would simulate the crush sleeve if in chance it sprung up a little?
When I installed the yoke I used a torque wrench set a 50lb. Mind you there is no instructions on nut torque settings with the eliminator.
AT 50-55 lb. the yoke was getting hard to turn and tested at 20 in.lb. drag. I thought I`d be good to continue with the rest of assembly?
Is this all wrong?
 
Sounds ok but torque the pinion nut to 175 and see what the preload is. You'll probably find it's quite a bit more. In that case you'll need to add some more shim. You'll find their really touchy (probably the reason I see supershaft post that he doesn't like them) and just .001~.002 can make a pretty significant difference on the preload.
 
The first time I tightned the yoke my wrench was set on 80 ft.lb.s
It did`nt even click yet and that jambed the pinion so tight I could`nt budge it by hand, so that`s when I backed it off to determine what nut torque was required to give me the 20 in.lb of drag for future refference/assembly.
If I was to go to 175- I`m thinking it`d take a 4' pipe wrench to turn that yoke.
Your saying adding shim, where? to do what?
 
For ease of set up it's nice to have an extra pinion bearing honed out just enough to slip on and off by hand. It gives you the ability to make changes with ease.

You also haven't mentioned adjusting the ring in or out, have you moved that at all?
 
Bad Sport said:
For ease of set up it's nice to have an extra pinion bearing honed out just enough to slip on and off by hand. It gives you the ability to make changes with ease.

You also haven't mentioned adjusting the ring in or out, have you moved that at all?
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Yes I`ve read of the honed out bearing, I was hopeing to use the original shim, and luck out, I should of known better with my luck.
To your question yes, post 1 and 26
 
i do the same as bad sport with the bearings. here is an install manual the may help
[ame]http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/HowTo/TechnicalInstructions/Yukon_Installation_Kit_Instructions.pdf[/ame]
 
I added oil to the mix this time and seem to be no better as to showing a better pattern.
The second pic is ruboff from the pinion gear, to bare ring gear and should give an idea on pinion gear depth
 

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mopar head said:
The first time I tightned the yoke my wrench was set on 80 ft.lb.s
It did`nt even click yet and that jambed the pinion so tight I could`nt budge it by hand, so that`s when I backed it off to determine what nut torque was required to give me the 20 in.lb of drag for future refference/assembly.
If I was to go to 175- I`m thinking it`d take a 4' pipe wrench to turn that yoke.
Your saying adding shim, where? to do what?
Click to expand...

Add shim(s) to the pinion bearing spacer to achieve 15-20 inch lbs of pinion bearing drag (with no seal installed) with the pinion nut torqued to 175 ft. lbs. What you did by trying to achieve 20 in lbs of drag by the tightness of the pinion nut won't work. The pinion nut needs to be real tight or it'll back off. I know you said you measured the old spacer that came out and tried to shoot for the same length but installing new bearings changed it and in addition it's extremely hard to measure it properly. I've tried and it'll get you in the ball park but you have to fine tune it with shims.
 
fishy, 175 ftlb.s seems pretty high for torque with an eliminator?
From the reading I`ve done it seems 125 is enough with the eliminator?
My wrench only goes to 150
Their`s only .016 of shims on it now, I`ll take it all back apart and see if I can get that nut torque alot higher with adding the shims, and report back.
Anyone want to opine on the pattern/depth with the new pics?
 
Coast side shows the pinion is to far away from the ring gear. The drive side? I can't see it.
 
Supershafts said:
The drive side is deep, and i don't like how it's marking the coast side, marking heavy on the toe and then moving off it...

Something is wrong there.
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SGBARRACUDA said:
Coast side shows the pinion is to far away from the ring gear. The drive side? I can't see it.
Click to expand...



I have`nt changed any pinion shims yet with conflicting pattern interpretations.
Which way to go??
I also have`nt thrown out the possibility that these are`nt matching ring and pinion. Anybody know if their are corrosponding numbers between the two?
Thanks to everybody for bearing with me and sharing your knowlage.
 
All I can tell you is what I see and what I would do. Now if you think this is not a matched set of gears, stop, throw these out and get a good set! May explain why the pattern is different on neighboring teeth.
 
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