Let's get this slant turbo project started. 71 Dart

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Hi Bill,

When my dad was a kid he used to take the AC Transit bus from El Cerrito to Baylands to watch the drags. When I was in my early twenties(late 1980's) I used to deliver trophies to Sears Point and hang out to watch the races. Once in a great while I would drag one of my cars out there to see what it could do. Always fun even if I lost or turned a bad time. May have seen you run and never even knew it :)

Production at the Chronicle? Not sure if it was simialr or not but my dad is a retired printer. Never at a newspaper, mostly 4 color offset presses. Retired a few years ago when a handle on the press caught his pant cuff and he fell smack dab on his *** and brokes his back. He still will get under the hood to see what I am working on and is a whiz when it comes to cars. We both pit crewed for a rent a racer team in the late 80's. Mistubishi Mirages and Starions. IMSA and SCCA races. Those starion/conquests were fun little cars! Surprised it has taken me this long to put a turbo on a car of my own.

Mike


Bill Dedman said:
From 1980 'til I retired in 2004, I lived in Hayward... So, I spent a lot of time at Fremont (Baylands?) when it was open, and later at Sears Point (Infineon?) and met a lot of racers in that 24 years. I worked in Production at the San Francisco Chronicle, but in downtown SF and later at the Union City plants.

So, Mike Loge (about my age) and Randy (his son) were both running A-Bodies (340's) in NHRA Stock Eliminator at the time, and still do, I believe. I lost touch with them years ago, but I had heard that Mike (and maybe Randy) lived in Antioch, now. Just thought you might have crossed paths with them at some point. I am pretty sure they have NO IDEA of the potential of a boosted slant six... LOL! But, they are MOPAR, through and through.... =P~
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So over the Holiday I ordered and received the air hat or "air plenum" for forced induction. 4" inlet, metal. Common design, got a deal on it on ebay. Looking at air filters for it now. Probably use a K&N or knock off K&N. I want this to use until I actually get the Turbo installed. Then I can get an adapter to attach to the turbo inlet or piping if I go cold air or get enthusiastic and try an intercooler setup.

Received the 2300 Carb from one of our fellow FABO members! Thanks!

Need to go back over to my house and pull the other intake and matching exh manifold for mock up. Want to see what I have in the way of linkage and what I need to fabricate to make this work.

Still pondering using the factory fuel pump or installing the electric pump I purchased for the 360 EFI install that never happened. It is an in tank setup for a ford 302, strong enough for the 360 Magnum. If I go this route does anyone have any advice for a fuel regulator?

Mike
 
Boost referenced mechnical, just plumb a t off the waste gate feed and run to back of fuel pump weep hole. I think High Pressure fuel pump with regulator is not going to be worth the complicated boost referenced configuration headache. Save it for the efi phase.
 
Thank you!

and thank you for the Carb and extra pieces! Much appreciated : )

Mike

pishta said:
Boost referenced mechnical, just plumb a t off the waste gate feed and run to back of fuel pump weep hole. I think High Pressure fuel pump with regulator is not going to be worth the complicated boost referenced configuration headache. Save it for the efi phase.
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So came home from a walk with my girlfriend and some punks slashed two of the tires on my dart.

I have a fairly positive idea who did it.
Last week three young guys with very special silver capped teeth threw their trash in my yard when I got home. I hopped out and told em to pick up their **** and they walked away. I picked it up and threw it at them but they were twice as far as I could throw it. So I took off after them. Being anemic and a two time kidney transplant recipient I am not in the best of health. So I could not catch them.

So they paid me back today by slashing the tires.
So now I am going out to spend several hundred on a camera system with hard drive so I can at least see pictures of them do it the next time.
The local police are useless.
I have had two hit and runs, my back pack stolen out of a car, and gas stolen and they will not even show up!

Girlfriend is all paranoid now about them hurting the house or her pets.

Not gonna back down. :finga:
 
CichliDart said:
So came home from a walk with my girlfriend and some punks slashed two of the tires on my dart.

I have a fairly positive idea who did it.
Last week three young guys with very special silver capped teeth threw their trash in my yard when I got home. I hopped out and told em to pick up their **** and they walked away. I picked it up and threw it at them but they were twice as far as I could throw it. So I took off after them. Being anemic and a two time kidney transplant recipient I am not in the best of health. So I could not catch them.

So they paid me back today by slashing the tires.
So now I am going out to spend several hundred on a camera system with hard drive so I can at least see pictures of them do it the next time.
The local police are useless.
I have had two hit and runs, my back pack stolen out of a car, and gas stolen and they will not even show up!

Girlfriend is all paranoid now about them hurting the house or her pets.

Not gonna back down. :finga:
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Dang... that sounds hard to take... Ever consider moving?
 
Bill Dedman said:
Dang... that sounds hard to take... Ever consider moving?
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Yes, as a matter of fact we were talking about it that morning before we found the slashed tires.

Bad economy and section 8 housing in this town. Basically the city opened it's doors for section eight housing and people moved from the worst part of the county to here. This community of about 100,000 is now in the top 100 most violent cities in the country. We have seven on duty police per shift and they can't or don't do much enforcement.

On another note I just scored a double roller timing chain and the over size valves from engine builder on ebay. :cheers:
 
CichliDart said:
Yes, as a matter of fact we were talking about it that morning before we found the slashed tires.

Bad economy and section 8 housing in this town. Basically the city opened it's doors for section eight housing and people moved from the worst part of the county to here. This community of about 100,000 is now in the top 100 most violent cities in the country. We have seven on duty police per shift and they can't or don't do much enforcement.

On another note I just scored a double roller timing chain and the over size valves from engine builder on ebay. :cheers:
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Sounds like a good place to be from... as in "away from."

I retired from 24 years at the SF Chronicle in 2004 and moved back to my native state of Arkansas and bought this new, brick, 1,650-sq. ft. house for $131,000.00, a $350,000.00 (or, so) house in Kalifornia. No car smog inspections,ever on any vehicle; you buy an antique plate for your 25-year-old car ONCE (I think it was $17.00, when I bought it in 2004) and never have to pay for licence again, run dual exhaust legally on any car, no front licence plate...

No traffic problems ("rush hour" doesn't exist,) and Hickory-smoke pork barbeque restaurants are everywhere...! :)

It isn't the perfect place to live, but it's a hell of a lot better than the Bay Area.

At least, I haven't had my tires slashed, recently...

Glad to hear you're making progress on acquiring parts for the engine! Those oversize valves will help, I'd bet, even if you don't do a full port job on the head.

Keep at it; you'll get there!:cheers:
 

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Hi Bill.

That is a Nice looking spread you got there! During the housing peak out her in Kalifornia that could have pulled a million if it were in San Jose. Up my way a good 500,000. When the housing crashed happened I was paying $2000. a months to rent a 5 bedroom place in Livermore. Loved the neighborhood! But the rent was stupid. I got a divorce after I moved from there and bought a place in Vallejo for about 125,000. Not the best city to live in, but I have a house at the end of a dead end street on a hill. This makes it nice and quiet which works out great for my folks. They lost their place right as I was buying this place so they live there now and I moved in with my girlfriend out in the same town I work in, Antioch. She has roots here and teaches at a local elementary school.

I would love the cheap homes out your way and lack of anally intrusive laws like we have out here. The car stuff alone is enough to make me want to move.

I have to wait and see what is going on with healthcare in the country right now. I have worked at locals hospitals for about 23 years now and they have always paid for all my kidney dialysis and transplant stuff. This has kept me tied to them as it would be cost prohibitive to change to another health plan. But who knows what is going to happen now.

As for some Mopar content, just got the Double roller timing chain, the complete engine gasket kit, and the oversized valves.

I do believe I will save the big valves and double roller for a rebuild when I might be seeking a bigger bore engine. Make use of the larger valves and head porting I hope to do.

But plans change all the time. We shall see :D
Mike


Bill Dedman said:
Sounds like a good place to be from... as in "away from."

I retired from 24 years at the SF Chronicle in 2004 and moved back to my native state of Arkansas and bought this new, brick, 1,650-sq. ft. house for $131,000.00, a $350,000.00 (or, so) house in Kalifornia. No car smog inspections,ever on any vehicle; you buy an antique plate for your 25-year-old car ONCE (I think it was $17.00, when I bought it in 2004) and never have to pay for licence again, run dual exhaust legally on any car, no front licence plate...

No traffic problems ("rush hour" doesn't exist,) and Hickory-smoke pork barbeque restaurants are everywhere...! :)

It isn't the perfect place to live, but it's a hell of a lot better than the Bay Area.

At least, I haven't had my tires slashed, recently...

Glad to hear you're making progress on acquiring parts for the engine! Those oversize valves will help, I'd bet, even if you don't do a full port job on the head.

Keep at it; you'll get there!:cheers:
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pishta said:
Boost referenced mechnical, just plumb a t off the waste gate feed and run to back of fuel pump weep hole. I think High Pressure fuel pump with regulator is not going to be worth the complicated boost referenced configuration headache. Save it for the efi phase.
Click to expand...


Hi Pishta, I think I got all the pieces for the Carb. Thank you!

As far as doing the "boost referenced mechanical" setup. Do you have a suggestion as far as internal versus external wastegate set ups?

I think on of the only things I am hesitant about buying is the actual turbo set up.

Thanks!

Mike
 
CichliDart said:
Hi Pishta, I think I got all the pieces for the Carb. Thank you!

As far as doing the "boost referenced mechanical" setup. Do you have a suggestion as far as internal versus external wastegate set ups?

I think on of the only things I am hesitant about buying is the actual turbo set up.

Thanks!

Mike
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Mike, thanks for the kind words!!! I appreciate it!

I just have one thing to add, at this point: I think you MIGHT benefit from the larger valves with NO porting, at this point (low-boost) say, 10-pounds,) and a 5,500-rpm redline, but the reason I say that is I believe that porting is not a very good bang-for-the-buck, when you can just add a a couple of pounds of boost and pick it up some (rather than reverting to a ported head for a performance increase.) That (a boost increase) doesn't cost anything,) whereas porting can be expensive unless you do it yourself, not an avenue I'd recommend.


Just some food for thought...
 
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the advice.

Pardon my ignorance on this. I presume I need to have a machine shop replace the valve seats for unleaded gas and to make them larger to accomodate the valves?

No, I like your place. House looks new, well maintained, nice flat ground, big driveway!

My place in vallejo is a bit run down, older place. Someone did pave the entire front of the property so there is Plenty of places to work on a car. The rest of my slice of land is on a slant so the back yard is not much for landscaping. The previous owner was trying to address this by filling it with concrete chunks so little chance of a lawn back there with out several truckloads of soil.

Mike

Bill Dedman said:
Mike, thanks for the kind words!!! I appreciate it!

I just have one thing to add, at this point: I think you MIGHT benefit from the larger valves with NO porting, at this point (low-boost) say, 10-pounds,) and a 5,500-rpm redline, but the reason I say that is I believe that porting is not a very good bang-for-the-buck, when you can just add a a couple of pounds of boost and pick it up some (rather than reverting to a ported head for a performance increase.) That (a boost increase) doesn't cost anything,) whereas porting can be expensive unless you do it yourself, not an avenue I'd recommend.


Just some food for thought...
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CichliDart said:
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the advice.

Pardon my ignorance on this. I presume I need to have a machine shop replace the valve seats for unleaded gas and to make them larger to accomodate the valves?

No, I like your place. House looks new, well maintained, nice flat ground, big driveway!

My place in vallejo is a bit run down, older place. Someone did pave the entire front of the property so there is Plenty of places to work on a car. The rest of my slice of land is on a slant so the back yard is not much for landscaping. The previous owner was trying to address this by filling it with concrete chunks so little chance of a lawn back there with out several truckloads of soil.

Mike
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No apology necessary, Mike; I am VERY ignorant of the valve seat question/answer and would suggest that you go ask S&S in San Leandro what needs to be done in your case. Tell them what you are doing. Rick Santos is the go-to guy there, or was when I lived there. He always treated me right.

Leaving California was easy for ME in 2004 as I turned 65, was retiring, going on Social Security, and the company I worked for was desparately trying to pare-down their workforce by offering "buyouts" to full-time employees, of which I was one. It all came together in the one time in my life when timing was critical. Only piece of good luck I ever had! You can believe that!!!

The house I bought was in construction (nearing completion) and was in my price range, so I bought it. Now that my wife has had a severe stroke and is in a nursing facility full-time, permanently, I just rattle around in it. :(

I will likely sell it and move into an apartment in the next year or two.

The turbo slant six is at my partner's house, 35 miles away, in Little Rock, so that's not a problem.

I cannot WAIT for the good weather so we can FINALLY put that puppy on the strip and get some baseline times.

At only 10 pounds of boost, it won't set the world on fire, but we'd like to see something in the low 13's... at least!

Talk is cheap; we'll see!!:prayer::prayer::prayer:

Keep on keepin' on!!!:glasses7:
 
Not much of an update.

I did replace the two slashed tires. It bites to have to pay money for tires you know you will probably not put a lot of miles on. On the other hand I need it to be mobile to take it to DMV to finish the out of state registration. I have driven it around a bit and it is surprising fast for a one barrel engine. The three on the tree shifter is sloppy but it works. It does NOT like to go into first if you are moving. But second and third seem fine.

I did manage to score a four barrel intake from one of our FABO members which means another adapter plate for the two barrel but I think I have one of those in a box somewhere.

Bill, I got the valve springs and the valves but have gone no further on investigating about new valve seats for the swap. I may just look for a used head and drag it in for a rebuild with the over sized valves, guides, and seats. Less down time for the car that way.

I got myself a present from Summit, Some Stewart Warner gauges. Basic stuff, boost, Amp, water temp, oil pressure. I spring an extra 15 bucks for an oil temp gauge. Maybe I am just being overly cautious but the idea of the engine oil getting higher temps makes me curious about how hot it will get.

I ordered a second exhaust pipe flange. The first one I bought is much larger than the 2.5 inch pipe I bought. Larger than I would be comfortable trying to weld the gap. This second one may be too small. See what I can work out between the two of them.

I am getting close to the point of ordering the turbo itself. I have been looking at the CT 26. From what little I have read they have two basic models. One for the four cylinder MR2 Toyota and the other for the six cylinder Supra and Land cruiser. I think the Supra one may be closer to what I need. I think I can add an adjustable actuator to keep the boost down until I get it to a comfortable level. Don't want to overboost and melt down the first time I start it.

[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/CT26-Turbo-Turbocharger-for-Toyota-Landcruiser-Land-cruiser-HJ61-4-0L-12H-T-12HT-/350986691629?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51b86fe42d&vxp=mtr"]CT26 Turbo turbocharger for Toyota Landcruiser Land Cruiser HJ61 4 0L 12H T 12HT | eBay[/ame]

Mike
 
CichliDart said:
Not much of an update.

I did replace the two slashed tires. It bites to have to pay money for tires you know you will probably not put a lot of miles on. On the other hand I need it to be mobile to take it to DMV to finish the out of state registration. I have driven it around a bit and it is surprising fast for a one barrel engine. The three on the tree shifter is sloppy but it works. It does NOT like to go into first if you are moving. But second and third seem fine.

I did manage to score a four barrel intake from one of our FABO members which means another adapter plate for the two barrel but I think I have one of those in a box somewhere.

Bill, I got the valve springs and the valves but have gone no further on investigating about new valve seats for the swap. I may just look for a used head and drag it in for a rebuild with the over sized valves, guides, and seats. Less down time for the car that way.

I got myself a present from Summit, Some Stewart Warner gauges. Basic stuff, boost, Amp, water temp, oil pressure. I spring an extra 15 bucks for an oil temp gauge. Maybe I am just being overly cautious but the idea of the engine oil getting higher temps makes me curious about how hot it will get.

I ordered a second exhaust pipe flange. The first one I bought is much larger than the 2.5 inch pipe I bought. Larger than I would be comfortable trying to weld the gap. This second one may be too small. See what I can work out between the two of them.

I am getting close to the point of ordering the turbo itself. I have been looking at the CT 26. From what little I have read they have two basic models. One for the four cylinder MR2 Toyota and the other for the six cylinder Supra and Land cruiser. I think the Supra one may be closer to what I need. I think I can add an adjustable actuator to keep the boost down until I get it to a comfortable level. Don't want to overboost and melt down the first time I start it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CT26-Turbo-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item51b86fe42d&vxp=mtr

Mike
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Mike, sounds like you are making good progress! We have been at this current slant six turbo project for a solid 4 years now, and have YET to get it to the strip. so understand that I am used to delays.... any progress is GOOD progress!!! :)

Please let us know which turbo you buy; I think you are making an informed decision...

Keep on with your persistent efforts and you'll end up with a really fun car!!!:blob:
 
So last night I saw some of the K1 rods on ebay and did an impulse best offer bid on it. I won, paid...then realized I got the wrong ones. :banghead:
The auction was only for the cast crank rods so it is not like I can opt for the forged set.

I am guessing my 71 block has a forged crank and that I would need a later model slant six to use these rods. As where I was considering picking up another complete engine to make a more powerful slant this was not how I wanted to go about it.

I guess the good news is that if I do stumble across a good late model slant I have these rods and they were only $300.

In other news, no news on my build. Still looking at the CT26, does anyone know if a diesel model CT26 would be ok to use? The models I am looking at are designed for the Landcruiser 4.0 and 4.2 litre engines. If these are too big I can go with a supra ct26 or MR2 ct26.

My thoughts on the diesel version is that it may be designed to produce more output at a lower rpm as traditional diesel engines make more torque in the lower RPM's but I don't know enough about that to be certain.

California finally gets rain, and it is right when I want to work on the car :cheers:

I need to hurry up and get the dart started and somewhat driveable before the summer projects pile up. I am going to try and build an Art Car for Burning Man this year. The last 6 years I have been to the event on foot or bicycle. It would be nice to cruise in an art car for a change.

My Camp vehicle for Burning Man is my 72 Dodge Sportsman van. 360 2 bbl with 727, 3:23 8 3/4. All these Turbo builds on here make me think about adding a turbo to the van sometime. It runs great as is, but going up the Sierras with a full load it can't always pass. I also want to start towing a trailer with it so a little more umph going up the mountain would be nice. But I should limit myself to two or three projects at once I suppose :-D

Just spit balling ideas for now.
 
Well I finally pulled the trigger and bought a used ct 26 for a supra. I also found a seller on ebay that will sell an outpipe flange in 3" instead of 2.5" so I may go for the 3" pipe like Bill mentions.
Now I am shopping for the oil drain flange for the oil pan as well as oil feed and drain flange, and the water feed and drain flange. This model is water cooled so I will need to T them into the heater hose lines. I assume these are ok to use. Seems easier than using the radiator hoses.
 
CichliDart said:
Well I finally pulled the trigger and bought a used ct 26 for a supra. I also found a seller on ebay that will sell an outpipe flange in 3" instead of 2.5" so I may go for the 3" pipe like Bill mentions.
Now I am shopping for the oil drain flange for the oil pan as well as oil feed and drain flange, and the water feed and drain flange. This model is water cooled so I will need to T them into the heater hose lines. I assume these are ok to use. Seems easier than using the radiator hoses.
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Where did you end up on the rod issue? The last time you posted, you had erroneously bought a set of K-1 rods for a cast crank. Have you done anything about that yet?

Just wondering...
 
Hi Bill,

Yes, I just sold them today. Once the buyer receives them I may go buy the 11.75 rotors for my disc brake swap. As much as I would like to turn that money into the methanol kit or some other go fast goodies I think going from 9 inch drums to discs should be a priority.

I read that you guys got your ride dialed in. :cheers: Looking forward to hearing more about that. Have fun out there.

Mike

Bill Dedman said:
Where did you end up on the rod issue? The last time you posted, you had erroneously bought a set of K-1 rods for a cast crank. Have you done anything about that yet?

Just wondering...
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CichliDart said:
Hi Bill,

Yes, I just sold them today. Once the buyer receives them I may go buy the 11.75 rotors for my disc brake swap. As much as I would like to turn that money into the methanol kit or some other go fast goodies I think going from 9 inch drums to discs should be a priority.

I read that you guys got your ride dialed in. :cheers: Looking forward to hearing more about that. Have fun out there.

Mike
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No, Mike; I don't know what you read, but we have NEVER had the mixture dialed in to an acceptable 11.5:1 figure, but I feel we're getting really close, so stay tuned; it may happen in a week or two... 10 pounds of boost isn't going to run 11's but once we get the mixture right. the boost WILL come up! Then, good things will start to happen (I HOPE!)

We'll see...

Thanks for your support! :)
 
I'd look at Rio Vista or nearby. Not too terribly far away, and a pretty drive in. That bridge toll does suck though.

Water cooled bearing housing doesn't mean that you have to have coolant plumbed to it. It'll be no different from a non- water cooled turbo if you don't connect it to coolant. All that the water cooling really does is help to prevent oil coking on hot shut-downs. If you get in the habit of not turning it off until the EGT is below ~300°F then coking the oil won't be a problem.
 
Whoops!

Must have been my wishful thinking. :glasses7:

The buyer just got their slant six rods today so I may take a wander over to Summit and buy some rotors for this thing.

Just got the Turbo last night night. It is a little sloppier than I would like but you get what you pay for. I may look for a rebuild kit for it.

Now that California has gone from raining to 85 degree weather in a 48 hour period it is time for me to go yarding again! On the lookout for an 8 1/4 rear end with tall gears. Not as many A bodies in the yards these days. May have to go with the original plan of the 8 3/4.


Mike


Bill Dedman said:
No, Mike; I don't know what you read, but we have NEVER had the mixture dialed in to an acceptable 11.5:1 figure, but I feel we're getting really close, so stay tuned; it may happen in a week or two... 10 pounds of boost isn't going to run 11's but once we get the mixture right. the boost WILL come up! Then, good things will start to happen (I HOPE!)

We'll see...

Thanks for your support! :)
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Thank you for the information about not needing to water cool it.

Back in the late 80's I pit crewed for a team that ran mistubishi starion/conquest and Mirage/colts. When the driver's would come off the track after a race we had to make sure they did not turn the car off right away. If they did the turbo would sieze up and the turbine would break off the shaft and at an angle in the housing. :eek:ops:

I will probably plumb it as it should not add a lot to the cost of the install but good to know!

When you say look in Rio Vista did you mean look for a part?

Bridge toll does suck but Rio Vista is really close and it is my back way to Sacramento.

Mike

ntsqd said:
I'd look at Rio Vista or nearby. Not too terribly far away, and a pretty drive in. That bridge toll does suck though.

Water cooled bearing housing doesn't mean that you have to have coolant plumbed to it. It'll be no different from a non- water cooled turbo if you don't connect it to coolant. All that the water cooling really does is help to prevent oil coking on hot shut-downs. If you get in the habit of not turning it off until the EGT is below ~300°F then coking the oil won't be a problem.
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