lifter galley crossover tube

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Here goes. It’s 3 parts. The crank, the block and the oiling system. I’m going to lay out the oiling system the way I changed it last and show how the guy that did it originally did it first. He wasn’t wrong he just didn’t have the oil do something all the time.

The crank MUST be cross drilled or it won’t work. And it has to be drilled so that the oil holes come out 180 degrees from each other. IOW’s, the oil feed hole should be at 12 o’clock and getting oil from the main feed, so when the crank is cross drilled the oil hole to the rods needs to be at 12 and 6 o’clock.

The block needs to be set up so the original oil gallery’s do not feed ANY oil to the crank. Ever. The simple way to do that is to drill and tap the main feeds coming down from the passenger side lifter gallery from the main bore for 5/16 set screws. You do that on the 1-4 main feeds. You can also tune the passenger side gallery and then do NOT drill into the tube. The thing that happens doing it this way is some oil is always up in that gallery. It doesn’t really matter. You can also do both the tube and the set screws if you like redundancy. The goal is to stop all oil coming to the mains from the OE passages.

Once you do that (forgot to mention that you also need to install a set screw under the number 1 main to the drivers side lifter feed so no oil gets up there...it’s just another set of leaks) you need to restrict the oil to the cam bearing feeds. I used an .080 hole in a set screw installed in the cam bearing feed. The cam/rockers will be getting full oil twice now instead of once so you can squeeze it down. The goal is to limit oil everywhere you can while getting the oil where you want it, when you want it there. It’s about oil control and timing.

On the filter side of the block you need to plug the big return feed from the filter and tap the untapped hole in the filter area for 3/8 pipe because you are going to run a remote filter.


Now that all the oil blocks and and restricters are in place, you can move on to correct the timing.

You must always run full groove bearings, so once the timing is corrected you get some oil flow started to the rods from the bottom side, which is when the oil needs to go to the rods.

If you are running main caps that aren’t flat across the top, I put them in the mill and machine a flat across the tops. Then I flip the cap over, use the hole in the main bearing to find the spot for the hole (you can lay it out if you want, but this ain’t rocket surgery) and I drill through the hole in the bearing to get a start and then take the bearing out and finish the hole. You do this for caps 1-4. The hole needs, to be sized for 1/4 pipe thread, and then you thread the holes from the cap side, not the bearing side.

Next we move to the plumbing. This is the way I ended up with the system. I made it as adjustable as I could so I could control the oil as much as I could.

I made a distribution can that was 4 inch in diameter and about 8 inches long. On the top is a number 8 fitting (which is plenty of the oiling system has been fixed to tighten up all the oil losses) and on the bottom is 5 number 4 fittings.

On the filter side of the block there are two holes, one tapped and plugged. This hole is now used to feed the number 5 main only. So you screw a 3/8 pipe by number 4 hose fitting in there and hook a number 4 line from the bottom of the can to that fitting and that’s done. The other four feeds are a bit more difficult.

Each of the other 4 hoses feeds a single main cap/bearing. I have used both a Milodon Super Stock pan and several box style pans. Unless you are running a dry sump, the box pans are pretty much worthless. The Milodon is a far better pan.

I use 4 bulkhead fittings in the pan so I can run the hoses from the bottom of the distribution tank over to the pan, and then run hoses inside the pan to the main caps. And that’s exactly what you do. The hoses feed each main, from the bottom. The crank is cross drilled so that when the the original oil feed hole is at 12 o’clock (lined up with the cam feed and NOT the main feed) all the oil from the cap goes into the crank and out to the rods. That’s why you need to restrict oil to the cam bearings. You need to force it out to the rods. The oil is there now on time, with full pressure and volume.

So it makes more sense, I’ll say it like this. The oil now goes out of the block and into a remote filter, from the remote filter over to the distribution can, and from there back out to the engine via the 5 hoses out of the bottom of the can. Once the oil gets to the main caps it feeds the mains and rods and the cam bearings/rockers from there. The mains get the oil first, and no oil gets to the lifters. This will oil the rods as high as your check book and valve train can handle.

The guy who came up with the fix, and the guy who paid him to fix it didn’t want everyone and their mother to see it. So he did the system a little differently.

Rather than use a remote filter and an external distribution can, he made up what he called a distribution “tree”. IIRC it was about 1.500 in diameter and was about 3 inches long. One end was drilled for 3/8 pipe and the other end was closed off. Around the diameter he drilled 4 holes for 1/4 pipe.

That was how he fed the mains. How he fed the tree was in pretty ingenious. He drilled into the rear main cap so it breaks into the main feed going out to the filter for 3/8 pipe. He screwed a 3/8 pipe nipple into the cap and used a right angle fitting from the cap to the tree to get oil out to the mains.


There was a big issue I found with this, that didn’t bother the guy who designed it, or the guy who paid for it.

And that issue was that ALL the oil got filtered, but it only filtered HALF the oil, because half the oil went to the filter and half to the mains. It bothered me that every time I serviced the bearings I found trash in them. It drove me nuts. I never had any bearing issues other than trash was in them, but being AR and half nuts, it drove me full nuts.

With the original system, no one would ever know it was there. You ran either a right angle adapter or the plate and no one was the wiser. It just bugged me seeing trash in the bearings all the time.

The other issue with moving it outside the pan, all the fence leaning keyboard tuners want to know what it is, and you have to try and explain it to them. And since they don’t have a clue about oil timing, and have never shifted a car under power above 6500 it makes no sense to them.

If any of this isn’t clear, let me know. I’ll try and define anything I didn’t make clear.

YR
 
Jim...Im going to run an Accusump with the oil supply coming from a sandwich adaptor between the block and oil filter.

Ill place a T in that supply line, run it thru the rear china wall with a bulkhead adaptor, and run a #6 AN line to the front of the rightside lifter gallery then drill and tap for a 1/4” x #6 AN fitting.

I think the #6 should add enough oil flow to thr #1 main bearing to keep it alive.

I will also use King fully groove coated bearings.


That won’t fix the oil timing issue. It’s not that there isn’t any oil there at the rods, it’s that the oil isn’t there at the right TIME.

This is easily proven by the fact the rod bearings look like crap, but the mains are perfect. The oil is at the mains. It’s at the rods. It’s just there at the wrong time.


RPM makes the timing issue more pronounced. That’s why full groove bearing help. To a point. They get oil to the rods all the time, but still not at the right time. As RPM goes up, the time to get full pressure, full flow oil to the rods goes down.

That’s why at lower RPM there isn’t much of an issue. The oil hole in the crank spends more time (albeit it’s measured in .xxxxxx seconds) lined up with the feed hole in the block. As RPM goes up, this time is much less and it becomes a bigger problem.
 
It's an interesting take on oil delivery. For me, it's one of those ideas you dream up but talk yourself out of actually doing. Two reasons, maybe three. It's a ****-mess of plumbing. The lack of filtration is also not gonna fly. Finally, I'd have to mull over all the drilling of main caps before I could live with it....that's removing metal in a pretty critical area.

The factory method of feeding the mains from the lifter galley is not perfect, but it does have some strengths. It's very compact and lightweight. It's also all but guaranteed to never leak or require maintenance. It seems that if you pressurize the right side galley with a steady supply of oil, it oughta be plenty good. I'm gonna look into feeding the galley from both ends a bit further; that seems also like a promising idea.If the oil is fed at both ends of the galley, there is no longer any reason the oil should want to fly past #4, refusing to turn.

The guys from the 1970's had a lot of smarts...they also had to contend with a lot of things we don't. Two big ones are heavy pistons and rods, and oil that was pretty close to kerosene. A modern-built engine with light rods and pistons, and modern oil....? It shouldn't require heavy rework...I guess I'll find out!
 
It's an interesting take on oil delivery. For me, it's one of those ideas you dream up but talk yourself out of actually doing. Two reasons, maybe three. It's a ****-mess of plumbing. The lack of filtration is also not gonna fly. Finally, I'd have to mull over all the drilling of main caps before I could live with it....that's removing metal in a pretty critical area.

The factory method of feeding the mains from the lifter galley is not perfect, but it does have some strengths. It's very compact and lightweight. It's also all but guaranteed to never leak or require maintenance. It seems that if you pressurize the right side galley with a steady supply of oil, it oughta be plenty good. I'm gonna look into feeding the galley from both ends a bit further; that seems also like a promising idea.If the oil is fed at both ends of the galley, there is no longer any reason the oil should want to fly past #4, refusing to turn.

The guys from the 1970's had a lot of smarts...they also had to contend with a lot of things we don't. Two big ones are heavy pistons and rods, and oil that was pretty close to kerosene. A modern-built engine with light rods and pistons, and modern oil....? It shouldn't require heavy rework...I guess I'll find out!


Thats why I moved it out of the pan. I filtered all the oil all the time to lean that up.

A failed main cap is the least of our worries if you are trying to make power at 8500.

You are dealing with an oiling system designed for mass surface transportation with a low RPM range, and simple production.

It certainly wasn’t designed by the same text books Chevrolet used, which is why they oil and the chrysler doesn’t.

It’s simple really. You can have a few hoses or you can knock the rods out of it.

Never broke a cap BTW, but I tore up a ton of other **** because I didn’t listen to the guy who paid to get it fixed.

I have enough junk out there to do another engine that is capable of 8500. Since I no longer race I have no desire to do it. But I could if I wanted to. And it would have the oil timing corrected.

Edit: forgot to mention you won’t find a quality race block with the oil timing off. I’ve never found one, unless it’s a Chrysler. It looks like Ritter took a shot at fixing it, and from the pictures it should work.

There isn’t an aftermarket Chevrolet block that doesn’t have priority main oiling (which only matters if you lose a lifter but certainly that’s the best way, not the cheapest way to do it but the best) and the oil getting to the rods about 70 degrees ATDC. I look at what works (chevrolet oil timing) what doesn’t (Chrysler oil timing) and compare the difference. The only difference is oil timing.
 
Found this.

YR keeps saying he's old, not sure he's this old though! :D

Does a good job of laying it all out and why the timing does actually matter. Something interesting is that super wide mains clearances help get flow to the rods, but with a high revving race motor there's reasons to not run super large clearances too. This is where grooves come in.

Seems to me the big issue is that trying to feed oil "down" into the crank is that the oil transfered has to "last" until the journal passes TDC on two cylinders before getting replenished and there's not a lot of oil supply in the passage during that time, and even less when the transfer window shrinks.

By feeding "up" the oil can be arriving when its needed and so its less likely to be depleted by the time the greatest need arrives.
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Found this.

YR keeps saying he's old, not sure he's this old though! :D

Does a good job of laying it all out and why the timing does actually matter. Something interesting is that super wide mains clearances help get flow to the rods, but with a high revving race motor there's reasons to not run super large clearances too. This is where grooves come in.

Seems to me the big issue is that trying to feed oil "down" into the crank is that the oil transfered has to "last" until the journal passes TDC on two cylinders before getting replenished and there's not a lot of oil supply in the passage during that time, and even less when the transfer window shrinks.

By feeding "up" the oil can be arriving when its needed and so its less likely to be depleted by the time the greatest need arrives.
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LOL...that is so small I can’t read it!! If I blow it up it gets blurry. Can you post a link here to where you found it? I’d love to read it. Probably could read it if I wasn’t half blind and almost as old as dirt.

TIA
 
It's all bullshit. It's just "showin off" what can be done to an engine block. The small block's oiling system is WELL ahead if it's time in totally stock condition. It's all smoke and mirrors.
 
Some of you guys are kinda funny thinking Chevies don’t have oiling issues. I swear they have more issues than anyone, and running slower ET’s.
 
Some of you guys are kinda funny thinking Chevies don’t have oiling issues. I swear they have more issues than anyone, and running slower ET’s.


Really? Because I’ve built my share of 8000 RPM plus small and big block chevy’s and the biggest issue is getting a decent pan on them.

I worked on the one time record holding BB/A Comp Eliminator small block chevy which is blown gas. He had to run a set sump by rule and it went through the lights at 10,500 plus depending on how the run went. He ran a stock pump. He had a nice pan and that was it.

When he was killing parts, knocking the rods out and fighting it in general it was 100% self inflicted. He had the 2 step set wrong, and it hurt parts in the first .5 of the run, but it didn’t knock the rod off until 600-700 feet out.

Once he corrected that it was flawless.

If a chevy isn’t oiling the rods, it’s because the nut behind the wheel changed something.
 
It's all bullshit. It's just "showin off" what can be done to an engine block. The small block's oiling system is WELL ahead if it's time in totally stock condition. It's all smoke and mirrors.


No smoke and mirrors if you want to shift at 8500. It’s fine if you want to keep it well below that. You still need full groove bearings, you still need to control the leaks, and you still need to get the pick up tube as big as you can, and with a center sump pan that’s about impossible.
 
The source isn't much better, but it's here:
Oil-Flow through Crankshaft and Connecting-Rod Bearings on JSTOR

Requires an account, but you can access 100 free articles a month.


And the most important part of all that (there is plenty in there...I need to read that one paper at least another half dozen times just to get 10% of it) was the TIME element.

On a Chrysler the oil timing is advanced. So not only is the oil getting there too early, you HALF the time the oil has to get to the rods from 4000 to 8000 RPM.

Also interesting is how the load changes from around TDC and TDC to well past that with RPM.

Certainly worth the time to read it. Also the Q&A at the end is interesting. These guys were addressing real world oiling issues. Very cool.
 
I gotta say, Chevy engine have plenty of rod issues. When I used to drag race every weekend like a religion, it was a common thing to see BB Chevy engine chuck rods. It happened enough that it was sort of a truism people would toss around. Meanwhile, I ran for years on the same 6600RPM 440 that I never went into...in fact that engine is still in one piece. Stock rods, stock crank, Stock 5 quart oil pan. I changed oil every 2 weeks and drove the car properly. I have over 660 1/4 mile runs on it in addition to many street miles.

Personally...I think this thread borders on 'old-school fanaticism'. Use the biggest oil pump, the most pressure, etc. A lot of that thought is a Band-Aid approach to oiling. It might work, but it's not very hi-tech.

If you look at many modern design engines, they use 'oil management' as opposed to 'oil quantity'. We're kinda in that vein, too, but there's also a lot of 'throw as much oil at it as possible' going on.

I think a lot of 'oiling system' problems like bad rod bearings aren't oiling system problems at all. Rather, they are detonation problems, balance problems, material problems, missed shift problems, etc. that get blamed on the oiling system. Pushing the limits is a big part of going fast and racing...but exceeding the limits is a big part of failures.
 
Try keeping cam bearings in an LS engine. Those things eat bearings like I eat potato chips.


LOL...I wasn’t talking LS stuff. I know they have cam bearing issues AND I know the number 3 main is weak.

But you know that you can drag an LS right out of a septic tank, throw twin hair driers on it and make 2000 HP. And it will live forever!!

















That’s sarcasm in case I didn’t get it to come across that way LOL.
 
As for that paper...I can't read it...but I do note it references 1917 in a few places, and it includes a section on 'the effect of over-oiling'. The paper I'm sure has some validity but what was 'gospel' in 1917 most likely is no longer 100% accurate a hundred years later. I attend engineering papers every year and one thing is always true - a group of engineers will present their findings, then another group of engineers will stand up and contest their findings. A paper can present meaningful data but seldom all of the data and even more seldom is it accepted as 'fact'.
 
Was published in 1984
Yah i know, was still a long time ago.
 
I gotta say, Chevy engine have plenty of rod issues. When I used to drag race every weekend like a religion, it was a common thing to see BB Chevy engine chuck rods. It happened enough that it was sort of a truism people would toss around. Meanwhile, I ran for years on the same 6600RPM 440 that I never went into...in fact that engine is still in one piece. Stock rods, stock crank, Stock 5 quart oil pan. I changed oil every 2 weeks and drove the car properly. I have over 660 1/4 mile runs on it in addition to many street miles.

Personally...I think this thread borders on 'old-school fanaticism'. Use the biggest oil pump, the most pressure, etc. A lot of that thought is a Band-Aid approach to oiling. It might work, but it's not very hi-tech.

If you look at many modern design engines, they use 'oil management' as opposed to 'oil quantity'. We're kinda in that vein, too, but there's also a lot of 'throw as much oil at it as possible' going on.

I think a lot of 'oiling system' problems like bad rod bearings aren't oiling system problems at all. Rather, they are detonation problems, balance problems, material problems, missed shift problems, etc. that get blamed on the oiling system. Pushing the limits is a big part of going fast and racing...but exceeding the limits is a big part of failures.


I don’t think I said use a big pump. In fact, I reduced the pump by 20%.

It certainly IS about oil control. That’s what it is 100%.

As I said, if you’re killing rod bearings in a chevy the issue isn’t the oiling system. The big block has a very heavy piston. Using stock rods and making the big ends round was a sure bearing killer. If they are round when you bolt them to the crank, they won’t be round at speed, the bearing will grab the crank and it’s all over but the clean up.

But thats not an oiling system problem.

The other question is how many modern V8’s are getting RPM as high as 8000 or more? IDK because I’m not building any of those. Yet. Not sure I want to. I know the Gen III hemi has lifter issues because the CAFE standards has caused the OR’s to find every single bit of parasitic loss in the system, to the point the lifters get starved of oil, and then they fail.

I say to see what works, you need to look at engines that RPM in the range you need and/or want to use. AFAIK, all the aftermarket hemi stuff has near correct if not correct oil timing. I know, for a fact the Alan Johnson 481 platform has the correct oil timing even though the block takes most hemi parts.

Pro Stock and Comp Eliminator (kill Comp and bring back Modified NOW) all have blocks with correct oil timing.

The overwhelming evidence is for correct oil timing. The Chevrolet V8 platform in the architecture we all grew up looking at is by far the most used stuff. I’m betting they outnumber at any track 100:1 Chrysler stuff.

So when you look at the numbers on the basis of units in service at the RPM range we are discussing the number of oil system related failures are an order of magnitude higher for the Chrysler oil timing. It’s simple numbers.

And the other two facts are, not any Chrysler guys shift anywhere near 8000 or higher, and since that is so not 1 in 1000 will need to do anything but get a good pan/pick up, use full groove bearings, tube the block and use a HV pump because of the bearings.

You do that and they will live at any RPM under 8000. Around that and over it and you WILL have issues.
 
As for that paper...I can't read it...but I do note it references 1917 in a few places, and it includes a section on 'the effect of over-oiling'. The paper I'm sure has some validity but what was 'gospel' in 1917 most likely is no longer 100% accurate a hundred years later. I attend engineering papers every year and one thing is always true - a group of engineers will present their findings, then another group of engineers will stand up and contest their findings. A paper can present meaningful data but seldom all of the data and even more seldom is it accepted as 'fact'.

You can join jstor for free and get 100 downloads a month for free. I did it.

The other thing is physics doesn’t change. There is a paper...IIRC it’s DACA 49 and IIRC the year is 1920 something about carburetor function. I read it a couple times a year. The principles laid out in that paper are still true today. Nothing will change that.

Same as we are discussing here. Those may be old papers, but what they learned at those crank speeds, bearing diameters and such is still valid. As is the TIME consideration of when the oil gets to the rods and how long the rods are getting full flow, full pressure oiling.
 
As for that paper...I can't read it...but I do note it references 1917 in a few places, and it includes a section on 'the effect of over-oiling'. The paper I'm sure has some validity but what was 'gospel' in 1917 most likely is no longer 100% accurate a hundred years later. I attend engineering papers every year and one thing is always true - a group of engineers will present their findings, then another group of engineers will stand up and contest their findings. A paper can present meaningful data but seldom all of the data and even more seldom is it accepted as 'fact'.


BTW, I forgot to ask what you are building and what RPM you need/want. I know you have the R3 block and that’s about it.
 
As for that paper...I can't read it...but I do note it references 1917 in a few places, and it includes a section on 'the effect of over-oiling'. The paper I'm sure has some validity but what was 'gospel' in 1917 most likely is no longer 100% accurate a hundred years later. I attend engineering papers every year and one thing is always true - a group of engineers will present their findings, then another group of engineers will stand up and contest their findings. A paper can present meaningful data but seldom all of the data and even more seldom is it accepted as 'fact'.

Everything in the paper is based on physics and not on using whale oil or unicorn piss to lubricate an engine. Bearing speed, mechanical oil consumption based on clearances, and film thickness are all discussed. There is a meaningful discussion in the appendix too. Nothing is presented as fact, only findings and observations. What I find funny is that so many people will dismiss findings from decades ago on the mere premise that it's 'old' data - but it doesn't matter when it was documented if it's based on things which don't change.

What I often find is that there's nothing new under the sun. What we use today is a result of research done back at the turn of the 19th century, we just do it better and more repeatable today but it's the same physics as they had back then. We also benefit from economies of scale which are able to produce far more complex junk at a faster rate than ever before.

What the paper basically talks about is that pressure fed from the crank journals to the rod journals experiences several forces and phenomenon which are repeatable and should inform a best practices approach to a lubrication system. First is that as engine speed increases, oil consumption at the bearings increases. There's also less time for oil to find its way from the crank journal to the rod journal which can lead to a lack of oil available in the passageway from the main to the rod. The oil in that passage is under immense pressure caused by the rotation of the crank (centrifugal effects), but if the rod clearance is excessive (side clearance was found to have zero effect, even back in 1927) then the oil gets 'consumed' too quick and runs out before it can be replenished by the mains. Larger mains clearances can increase the oil flow from the mains to the rods by an order of magnitude (!!!), and this is where grooved bearings come in, even back then. Wider, deeper grooves are always better from an oiling standpoint. Now, we're talking 2800 rpm as the 'high rev' range of these engines, so it's not like anyone is going to recommend leaving .05" wide margins on the mains of a 12k rpm prostocker or anything - but it does show where additional rod oiling can be gained and demonstrates the concepts clearly. Concepts still in use because of course they are.

Speaking of centrifugal effects on the oil for the rod journal - imagine what happens when stroke is increased? It doesn't make things better. This suggests that those of us with strokers really ought to pay more attention to oil feed and supply..

They even tested a re-routed passage from the main to the rod journal and effectively 'reversed the course' of the passage. Guess what? It reduced oil pressure and flow at the rod (duh). Which is neat because at least they demonstrated the effect physically, it's not just a theory.

Worth noting in the discussion toward the end was that the centrifugal effects also basically helped 'centrifuge' the dirt/debris out of the oil. That when oil passages were drilled blind into the rod throw, then cross-drilled from the rod journal - there was dirt and other debris found packed into the end of the blind passage - a small passage drilled through allows that trash to be ejected in a desirable direction so that it can find it's way back to the sump and get filtered and prolong engine life. Neat stuff!

Another observation was that if the oil feed from the main to the rod happens to intersect the rod journal surface where the connecting rod aligns near TDC, the oil flow is severely restricted because the pressure acting down on the rod effectively occludes the oil passage and oil film can break down and despite adequate flow the bearing can still fail. This wasn't the main topic of the paper and they refer to another paper where bright light and photography was used to directly observe a translucent gap at the bearing in order to track the existence of an oil film. Neat stuff again.

Timing was discussed briefly, and more-or-less it was found that by having oil supply at the mains aligned with the rod journal passage prior to TDC but some time after BDC, the oiling system has less trouble keeping the rod journal full of oil. Which to me, is the big take away and explains what YR is on about with the oil distribution canister concept.

What YR describes is a system which allows filtered oil to reach the mains in an area where it's advantageous for multiple reasons:
  • Oil pressure entering under the crank is going to resist downward forces from the pistons more readily. This can help prevent film breakdown due to loading.
  • Oil pressure entering near the rod journal passage while the piston is on the up-stroke allows oil to reach the rod journal as the load on the rod journal is increasing. This helps reduce the chance for the oil film to reduce at a critical time.
What YR describes is obviously meant for a max-effort type build, not just mom's grocery getter. However, the criticality of the oil system increases as stroke increases and as rpm increases. Those who really want to try and make power in the upper rpm range should not take oil timing lightly. The better the oil system performs at high rpms, the more power can be made 'up there' before the engine grenades. I'd be willing to bet that stock blocks are actually stronger than popular opinion would lead us to believe, but that oil system breakdown leads to catastrophic failure that gets pegged on 'weak blocks' instead of on poor oil flow management.

Looking around at some high effort blocks that used to be available, I see pictures of blocks with no oil pump provisions (built for dry sump) with oil holes tapped into the main caps. So for those that think this is all just chest puffing and fabrication for the sake of self-pleasure, I don't think you're fully grasping what 'max effort' means.
 
All you RPM heads are spinning your wheels while I’m out there running mid 9’s shifting at 6600 rpm with my small block. Lmao.
 
All you RPM heads are spinning your wheels while I’m out there running mid 9’s shifting at 6600 rpm with my small block. Lmao.

Imagine how much faster you could go with an octoilpus canister feeding your mains!

Besides, 9's aren't as fast as they used to be.. 7's is where it's at now, don'tcha know?

I also don't think your point disagrees with anyone talking about oiling mods - the stock system can go plenty fast. It's when plenty fast is no longer fast enough or displacement limits push an engine into higher and higher Rev counts that it begins to matter.
 
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