My home inspection of Speedmaster heads

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lead69 said:
So throwing around things like internet gurus and $180 for a rocker correction kit I'm in the wrong buisness is saying nothing bad lol. As far as lining up with you whatever, why don't we just meet up at the schoolyard lol,maybe the lunchlady will serve up some cheseburgers.
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I've explained myself about those guys..
Remember I don't bully nobody and I don't call anyone profane names.. or so I just talk on my voice command and say what's on my mind.. also because I say what I feel automatically makes everybody say that I'm not listening? Do I have to listen to everything anybody says on the internet.. and then worship everything that they say...there's people out here that I'm not even sure if they're human...
sure I'll go get a cheeseburger I'll give anybody a chance the first time even the second time but for crying out loud I haven't seen that yellow rose is a real person one time no matter how many tries...
 
It seems to me I found the StreetMaster/ProComps delt with the geometry problem, somewhat, by lowering the rocker stands .050. but I'm terrible about taking notes, and I can't verify it.
 
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lead69 said:
So throwing around things like "internet gurus" and "$180 for a rocker correction kit I'm in the wrong buisness" is saying nothing bad lol. As far as lining up with you whatever, why don't we just meet up at the schoolyard lol,maybe the lunchlady will serve up some cheseburgers. Feel free to pm me if you want to continue, I don't want to further derail the thread.
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Putting down a valuable service?...
 
Another test iiisssss a vacuum testtt. Standard shop procedurrre.. Light in a dark room and bottles of alcohol are great for the at home diy'r I guess. Great job um uh Ya uh so uh yeah other than that, mmkay.
Jk thanks for the neat vid.
 
j par said:
Putting down a valuable service?...
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The B3 kit? Here’s the thing. If your on here and you don’t use it you get brow beat to death. You get the “Your an idiot” “Your leaving power in the table” “Your geometry is wrong” “Your stuff is gonna bend brake warp or just simply **** a cheeseburger out a valve” & etc.... it’ll never end until you get beat up enough to get a B3 kit.
Do you NEED the kit? No
Would it help the engine to have the kit? Yes
What if you change cams? You probably need a new B3 set up. Add that to the probable cost of new pushrods.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Another test iiisssss a vacuum testtt. Standard shop procedurrre..
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I know we're talking as relating to the valve job, but I also used vacuum and dye to find an oiling issue on a modern era aluminum 4-valves per cyl Benelli 3-cylinder sportbike (135 hp beast) not too long ago. Brand new it was blowing blue smoke every time at startup, leaving from sitting idling at a long stoplight. Compression and leak down test were good. Was thinking bad valve seals or something related. Had to pull the head to inspect the guides and valve stems, the seals etc. Measured clearances, there was nothing wrong with the seals, I was baffled. But to further verify no oil was being drawn down the valve/guides I used dye and vacuum to see if I could draw liquid that way. Lo and behold the dye started wicking from a few guides (many of them intakes) as pressed into the alloy cylinder head! They were installed incorrectly, tearing the aluminum causing fissures where the oil could then be drawn into the port. At the time I never would have considered oil getting past the guide as pressed into the head but now I know better. And, that is something I wonder about with any alloy head with the guides pressed in. Ever see something like this??
 
j par said:
I'm only two more members away from pulling their heads apart and not having any sticky valves and slapping these things on right out of the box...
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Dwayne Porter specifically mentioned bad valve seals on the set he took apart. Its posted in one of the many threads. I'd be swapping for quality valve seals, at a minimum.

But once you're apart, it's not much more time to mic a valve stem, and put a pin gauge through a guide.
 
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TurboGLH said:
Dwayne Porter specifically mentioned bad valve seals on the set he took apart. Its posted in one of the many threads. I'd be swapping for quality valve seals, at a minimum.

But once you're apart, it's not much more time to mic a valve stem, and put a pin gauge through a guide.
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I don't know the person you mentioned. They're probably a great Machinist..
I know the Machine Shop close to my house said they have junk valve seats and valve guides and that would be $800 to fix... Then at that point I guess I would want a new valve job as well. Might as well get new Springs retainers and all that as well.. what the hell at that time I might as well have them ported... Damn it I should have just got the truck flows..
Damn it you're right! All the gurus are right I'll never be happy unless I spend 3k on some heads...
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Another test iiisssss a vacuum testtt. Standard shop procedurrre.. Light in a dark room and bottles of alcohol are great for the at home diy'r I guess. Great job um uh Ya uh so uh yeah other than that, mmkay.
Jk thanks for the neat vid.
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Yeah I think he explained that all through the video that this was just do it yourself kind of check. We all know you're a badass machinist and check everything down to its last nuance but this isn't what this is about... no one's trying to set the world on fire with a set of Speedmaster heads.. and when you're going for Budget why spend trick flow money on them? No one is recommending these heads for an extreme all-out effort.. I don't think anyone's putting them on a high-mileage car that they're going to put twelve thousand miles a year on... At $700 a set you could probably buy a new set every four-five years and not have a problem LOL just put ten bucks away a month...
 
j par said:
I don't know the person you mentioned. They're probably a great Machinist..
I know the Machine Shop close to my house said they have junk valve seats and valve guides and that would be $800 to fix... Then at that point I guess I would want a new valve job as well. Might as well get new Springs retainers and all that as well.. what the hell at that time I might as well have them ported... Damn it I should have just got the truck flows..
Damn it you're right! All the gurus are right I'll never be happy unless I spend 3k on some heads...
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You know him, be goes by PRH on here.

This is a silly argument, there's no comparison between Trick Flow and these heads, but the price difference is big enough that a lot of people, including myself, were willing to try them out.

But, there has to be a reason for the large price difference, and that probably comes in the quality of the parts or workmanship.

Just looking at mine last night i noticed that the rockers they sell won't clear the springs without a correction kit, all of the exhaust bolt holes are packed with chips, and the guide supports have some chips on them where the cnc work was done.

There's no shame in saving money, but they warrant a deeper look than a set of $2400 trick flows.
 
TurboGLH said:
You know him, be goes by PRH on here.

This is a silly argument, there's no comparison between Trick Flow and these heads, but the price difference is big enough that a lot of people, including myself, were willing to try them out.

But, there has to be a reason for the large price difference, and that probably comes in the quality of the parts or workmanship.

Just looking at mine last night i noticed that the rockers they sell won't clear the springs without a correction kit, all of the exhaust bolt holes are packed with chips, and the guide supports have some chips on them where the cnc work was done.

There's no shame in saving money, but they warrant a deeper look than a set of $2400 trick flows.
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I don't think there was one Guru around here that didn't say every head no matter what manufacturer needs to be checked out?.. (I mean how are they going to make any money)
who in their right mind is not going to give any part they put on their engine a thorough cleaning before installation? My first set of 273 rockers did not clear the springs... Just a little back cut underneath of them and everything was fine... Are you saying you're rockers need to move forward? Or just not hit the spring?..
 
My springs wouldn't clear my rockers on my 273 either. (without a little clearancing) Just a mismatch of springs and rockers on that head. Depending on what cam/combination we go with while using these heads may be a spring change is necessary. .600 lift dual springs may be over kill for a lot of us.. A slightly smaller spring might work. How about a set of bee hives? A bit of added expense buying springs and retainers but I know the rockers would clear those.

100_5227.JPG
 
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There are ways around running your engine without correcting your rocker geometry because we’ve done it for years and have broken parts to prove it. Was it right? Hell no, it was just a case of weeding out the weak parts and replacing them with bulkier heavy duty parts that would handle the abuse of not being right. Then along comes a guy smart enough to address the problem the right way and fix it. And I thank him for that and will be a return customer.
 
pittsburghracer said:
There are ways around running your engine without correcting your rocker geometry because we’ve done it for years and have broken parts to prove it. Was it right? Hell no, it was just a case of weeding out the weak parts and replacing them with bulkier heavy duty parts that would handle the abuse of not being right. Then along comes a guy smart enough to address the problem the right way and fix it. And I thank him for that and will be a return customer.
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I just love the way these conversations continuously twist and twist and twist until someone's believing this is about someone's fix kit.. do we need to start a different conversation about geometry fix kit or has that been covered? No one said it was a bad thing no one said anything bad about the person who invented it. I said it seemed a little or a lot expensive for some shims but at the time had no idea that this was a one-off custom build for each person's heads and admitted it but did not call the persons product inferior or not necessary or whatever.. this is the last time I will defend myself no matter how much people want to twist this into something that it's not...
This Thread is totally budget-minded heads with a budget-minded once-over..
That's it finished stick a fork in it...
 
12many said:
I know we're talking as relating to the valve job, but I also used vacuum and dye to find an oiling issue on a modern era aluminum 4-valves per cyl Benelli 3-cylinder sportbike (135 hp beast) not too long ago. Brand new it was blowing blue smoke every time at startup, leaving from sitting idling at a long stoplight. Compression and leak down test were good. Was thinking bad valve seals or something related. Had to pull the head to inspect the guides and valve stems, the seals etc. Measured clearances, there was nothing wrong with the seals, I was baffled. But to further verify no oil was being drawn down the valve/guides I used dye and vacuum to see if I could draw liquid that way. Lo and behold the dye started wicking from a few guides (many of them intakes) as pressed into the alloy cylinder head! They were installed incorrectly, tearing the aluminum causing fissures where the oil could then be drawn into the port. At the time I never would have considered oil getting past the guide as pressed into the head but now I know better. And, that is something I wonder about with any alloy head with the guides pressed in. Ever see something like this??
Click to expand...

The heads heated before guides installed? Heat expansion will make a guide loose enough to suck oil.
 
For all the post on this particular page, the title of the thread and video is "My Home Inspection of Speedmaster Heads". Key words are "Home Inspection".
  • ProMaxx, Edelbrock, Trick Flow, SM should all be inspected before use, correct?
Lots of ways to skin a cat. I showed mine. Please add your ways of how you inspect heads at home. I started doing my own heads over 25 years ago and never had a failure. I'm confident if I have a problem with my SM heads, it won't be due to my failed inspection. :)
 
318willrun said:
For all the post on this particular page, the title of the thread and video is "My Home Inspection of Speedmaster Heads". Key words are "Home Inspection".
  • ProMaxx, Edelbrock, Trick Flow, SM should all be inspected before use, correct?
Lots of ways to skin a cat. I showed mine. Please add your ways of how you inspect heads at home. I started doing my own heads over 25 years ago and never had a failure. I'm confident if I have a problem with my SM heads, it won't be due to my failed inspection. :)
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Can I get an amen...
 
We always tested our valve grinds by putting the heads on some stands and filling the chamber with solvent, let it sit overnight and look for leaks the next day. If they don't seal you will know. Some solvent would evaporate but if the ports were damp you had an issue.
 
toolmanmike said:
Where's the "amen button"? Do I need to talk to Joey? :lol:
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actually something between agreed and disagreed I guess it's thanks but when I hit the disagree button it sure gets people in a Twist and I'm not looking for that...
:thumbsup:..
 
Here is a head story. Years ago I took a set of 383 commando heads to a well-known, reputable speed shop. This guy had a 8.90 car in the late 80's. I had him install new hardened seats and guides. I still did my home inspection and found one head to be perfect and the other head would pour light or alcohol through the exhaust valves (all 4) like it was a funnel. Every one of those stink'n exhaust seat were not aligned to the new guides. I spent hours and hours at home lapping those to seal. Do not think just because you pay money $$$ at a machine shop that you don't need to still inspect them at home...… and you may still find JUNK. I sure have.
 
I’m a self taught engine builder, Head porter that can’t afford machine shop equipment or paying someone to do my stuff. Or the time to wait for them to do it when they feel like it. My old school valve jobs and hand lapped valves have hurt a lot of professionally built engines feelings at the track so I’m not sold on the best of the best idea. Just stick with what you can afford and go out and have some fun.
 
pittsburghracer said:
I’m a self taught engine builder, Head porter that can’t afford machine shop equipment or paying someone to do my stuff. Or the time to wait for them to do it when they feel like it. My old school valve jobs and hand lapped valves have hurt a lot of professionally built engines feelings at the track so I’m not sold on the best of the best idea. Just stick with what you can afford and go out and have some fun.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The heads heated before guides installed? Heat expansion will make a guide loose enough to suck oil.
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No idea, but I doubt it, this was a new bike I bought and had shipped to me across country. Had less then 10 miles on it, Came from the factory untouched to when I started break-in. I ended up degreasing the fissures, used vacuum and gravity to draw some Loctite retention of some sort, cured, then sealed the spring cups/guides/ head with gray rtv. Problem was solved
 
318willrun said:
Here is a head story. Years ago I took a set of 383 commando heads to a well-known, reputable speed shop. This guy had a 8.90 car in the late 80's. I had him install new hardened seats and guides. I still did my home inspection and found one head to be perfect and the other head would pour light or alcohol through the exhaust valves (all 4) like it was a funnel. Every one of those stink'n exhaust seat were not aligned to the new guides. I spent hours and hours at home lapping those to seal. Do not think just because you pay money $$$ at a machine shop that you don't need to still inspect them at home...… and you may still find JUNK. I sure have.
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Somehow they never checked runout on those seats..
Those type of things happen more often than anybody would be willing to admit.
I've had to send heads back (to machine shop) cause the guides were all over the place. (Breaking in a new guy?)
Nobody likes their work being checked, but it is a must.
 
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