10 sec. 318?

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A couple notes: Roots type blowers (what you're talking about) are not easy on parts and the engine needs to be built to make the best use of them. You can run them underdriven to keep it together and make people smile but you won't make anbywhere near that power level. In fact, for the power level you are talking about you will nee a bit of work and support equipment to keep things together. Knowing this, build a mild 318 and plan on building another dedicated engine for the blower. I wouldnt advise anbything else.
 
The only other kind I know of it a screw type. Is there really much difference between them other than what type of mechanism they use for compression? I was planning on doing my best to go with all forged internals and good bolts to hold it all together like an ARP kit, but it depends on if I can find good deals on anything. I could always do nitrous, but I hate to have to fill a tank all the time, not that I would be using it too much. And I hear it's sort of harder on everything down the line since it's a big shock load when you hit the button, but then again I've never driven anything with any kind of power adder, so I'm admitted just going on what I've read around the place. The more I look at it the more I think a small block stroker is the path I'm going down. If I can pull 500 horse without boost or anything that would be just as much fun =P. I doubt the tires will hold it anyway since I'm not really planning on tubs anytime soon, too hard to cut everything up in the back and move it around since the trunk hinges attach to the tubs.
 
I hear ya on the poor college student thing...My Cuda was my daily driver in college. I had a 318 w/ ported J heads and a way too big MP 284/.484 cam that made it a dog...but it sure sounded mean! I put a bottle on it half way through school and had a lot of fun, but it didn't start going fast till I got out of school and got a REAL job. After school is when I build my first 360...

I guess what I'm saying is, if you're in school just make it a fun driver for now. Build a monster small block later when money (and time) permits....this, of course is JMHO.
 
Haha, yeah, I wonder what the school would think if they knew I was spending my scholarship money on toys =P. I'm doing grad school now and living at home, so it's not terrible money-wise, but I don't really have much income. How much do you have in your 410 stroker and what kind of power do you get out of it? I'm pretty sure that's the top of my list at the moment. I think I can probably do a stroker kit and heads at the very least right now and then maybe pick up an intake and cam soon. Too bad machine work around here is pretty over-priced from what I've heard from others. We did a 440 rebuild a few years back and it was something like $2000 for a boil, new pistons, used valve springs, bore, line hone, etc. We had another little V6 just boiled and honed somewhere and it was still several hundred. Anyone recommend a good machine shop in the Topeka / Kansas City area?
 
Thread on Moparts about the limits of the Caltrac system. Based on the info being discussed, seems they can work for cars running into the 8s.

here.
 
rmchrgr said:
Thread on Moparts about the limits of the Caltrac system. Based on the info being discussed, seems they can work for cars running into the 8s.

here.
Click to expand...

Oh can you get an 8 second CalTrac car down the track sometimes? Sure you can, once in a awhile but it's going to be a crapshoot each and everytime.

Do any amount of racing and you'll see what I mean. Go to a high dollar race at an unfamiliar track where you only get two time runs and see how well that goes. No time for tuning or adjusting, you better be "on" when you get there.
 
There's a lot of anecdotal evidence in that thread about I know guys going 7's on CalTracs but no real hard evidence.
 
True, but they work real well on 10 second cars. As you yourself know, just about every successful NHRA stocker runs the Caltrac system, don't need much more hard evidence than that. Some of the A-stockers are in the 9s at this point.

4 links are all fine and good but I don't think the OP was about transforming his ride into a back half type of car. $6K won't get you too far in a program like that.

Would be tough to get into the 12's with a 318 for $6K but hey, we'll play along anyway.
 
rmchrgr said:
Thread on Moparts about the limits of the Caltrac system. Based on the info being discussed, seems they can work for cars running into the 8s.

here.
Click to expand...

See now that was the point I was trying to make to Guitar. I KNOW plenty thanks guitar.

There are many cars running caltracs at my intended power level.I think they are fine at 8 or 900 hp. Werent they developed by a national champion?

Seems to me that there is a guy here running deep in the 9's on a leaf spring suspension as well.

Even the guys at mopar muscle are running the calverts deep into the 10's with a 750 hp big block in an A body.

Im thinking they will be good enough for me as well. 4 link suspension would be nice sure,but there are cheaper alternatives that work just as well. A 4 link tube frame car just isnt in my budget.
 
needsaresto said:
See now that was the point I was trying to make to Guitar. I KNOW plenty thanks guitar.

There are many cars running caltracs at my intended power level.I think they are fine at 8 or 900 hp. Werent they developed by a national champion?

Seems to me that there is a guy here running deep in the 9's on a leaf spring suspension as well.

Even the guys at mopar muscle are running the calverts deep into the 10's with a 750 hp big block in an A body.

Im thinking they will be good enough for me as well. 4 link suspension would be nice sure,but there are cheaper alternatives that work just as well. A 4 link tube frame car just isnt in my budget.
Click to expand...

I totally understand what you're saying but I think you guys over estimate the ability of the CalTracs. The stockers use them because they have to keep the leaf springs if that's what they came with. If these guys were allowed any suspension you can bet your *** they'd have 4 links under them and they don't make any where near 800 or 900 horsepower. Most of them don't even make half that horsepower.

I was simply trying to point out that for a little more money he could have a suspension system for life. Why do it twice? Then you have to buy wheels and tires again, modify the roll bar or cage and on and on. It's so much easier and cheaper to build a lasting foundation the first time around.

...but there are cheaper alternatives that work just as well.
Click to expand...

See this is where I have a problem, they may get you down the track most times but they do not work just as well, leaf springs will always be inferior no matter what device you put on them. Can they be good, or are they just good enough? That depends on what end result you want.
 
I agree with Guitar, i ran Caltracs & Rancho shocks on my high 10 sec. duster, were they consistant, not really, but they were more consistant then SS springs.
 
Map63Vette said:
Haha, yeah, I wonder what the school would think if they knew I was spending my scholarship money on toys =P. I'm doing grad school now and living at home, so it's not terrible money-wise, but I don't really have much income. How much do you have in your 410 stroker and what kind of power do you get out of it?.....
Click to expand...

Oh….I’m not real sure….If I added up all the money I have sunk into my car I might make myself sick (ignorance is bliss). For the stroker build, I started with a LOT of the parts from the previous motor and still spent at least 6k on the build. I started out with the block (only needed to be cleaned and honed), ootb eddy heads, pro magnum rockers, intake, carb, ignition, head/main studs, pan, headers.

The bulk of the money went to a solid roller cam & lifters, Eagle steel crank, Stupid custom Diamond pistons (won’t do that again…long story), and sending the heads to RyanJ for his stage II port work. There were a lot of other things too, but those 4 were the real pricy ones. I did save quite a bit by building it myself...I think I spent 6-8 hours grinding in the lifter valley to make room for the roller lifters.

Power, not sure...never had it on a dyno. I would guess from the ET that it is somewhere in the 520-530 hp range (car weighes 3250 with me in it).

Not cheap, but hey…I accomplished my goal of having a 10 second street car that is drive able on the street, and fast at the track….all on pump gas.:toothy10:
 
Are we sure it's the 4 link alone that produces consistency or the tube chassis supporting the 4 link? A good tube chassis will help plant the tires by redirecting the twisting force of the motor onto the rr tire.

I think that if I were to 4 link alone without proper chassis support I would not be very consistant.

Im also thinking that the ss cars were pretty consistant with leafs not 4 links.After all they ruled the strip for close to 10 years in thier class.But that was 40 years ago where perhaps consistency wasnt what it is today.

The motown missile had it's own special setup of course. I think the chassis plan is in the mopar chassis book but I really havent looked at it as it would be pretty outdated.

However the clowns over at mopar muscle seem to be running very consistant with leafs and caltracs. The car is a dedicated track car with an 800 hp bb wedge (recently upgraded top end)
 
flyfish said:
Not cheap, but hey…I accomplished my goal of having a 10 second street car that is drive able on the street, and fast at the track….all on pump gas.:toothy10:
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I'm looking for, lol. I think I'm going to start seriously looking around for a block and some parts now that I have a more focused approach. I don't know that I'll do any extra machine work like porting, but I have no problem putting all the parts together, I love engine work. What kind of power do you think a bolt together 410 stroker would put out? I figure stock block, stroker kit (claims 10:1 with 64cc heads, off of Ebay from JMS Racing Engines with forged rods and pistons, cast crank, and all the bearings), aftermarket heads (possibly the RHS heads mentioned earlier in this thread or Edelbrocks or any other ideas for a reasonable price), probably RPM intake, and I'll try to keep the 625 cfm Carter competition AFB I have if I can to keep costs down. Not sure on cam at the moment, but I would like something pretty hot that would still drive around okay, a little lope wouldn't hurt though =P. I saw a stock 360 on TV the other day with just heads, intake, and cam swap pull 380 with some tuning, so how much more could I expect from a stroker? 450 to 500 would be pretty dang fun on the street 8).
 
needsaresto said:
Are we sure it's the 4 link alone that produces consistency or the tube chassis supporting the 4 link? A good tube chassis will help plant the tires by redirecting the twisting force of the motor onto the rr tire.

I think that if I were to 4 link alone without proper chassis support I would not be very consistant.

Im also thinking that the ss cars were pretty consistant with leafs not 4 links.After all they ruled the strip for close to 10 years in thier class.But that was 40 years ago where perhaps consistency wasnt what it is today.

The motown missile had it's own special setup of course. I think the chassis plan is in the mopar chassis book but I really havent looked at it as it would be pretty outdated.

However the clowns over at mopar muscle seem to be running very consistant with leafs and caltracs. The car is a dedicated track car with an 800 hp bb wedge (recently upgraded top end)
Click to expand...


Look under nearly any SS car these days and you'll find back halved 4 links or ladder bars. You don't need a tube chassis, a back half will do it.

All the stuff you are talking about was done before the 4 link was developed, racers are always looking for a better solution and that's what led to the development of ladder bars and 4 links. If all that other crap was so great they'd still be running it.

I can tell you I runnered up Saturday night at the track, every quick (6.50 - 6.80) car with leaf springs and CalTracs were skating on the track by the 5th round. My car went down both lanes every pass without a problem and in fact had the best 60' of the night in the final. I broke out by .007 but I screwed up because I took .03 of stripe. I should have tightened that up a bit more.
 
Hijack alert!

Not everyone wants a big tire, 4 link/ladder car. Why is that so hard to understand. They are a blast to drive on the street... NOT!

Carry on...
 
crackedback said:
Hijack alert!

Not everyone wants a big tire, 4 link/ladder car. Why is that so hard to understand. They are a blast to drive on the street... NOT!

Carry on...
Click to expand...

Why is it so hard to understand that I only pointed out for a little more money he could back half the car and then came the onslaught of the misinformed masses that tell everyone that CalTracs are so good they will not only hook up a Pro Stock powerplant but they even cure cancer!

Carry on indeed...
 
Well, not to derail my own thread, but what exactly is a CalTrac? I assume it's some sort of rear suspension setup, but what all does it entail?
 
they are not "just traction bars"

they really do work better than any other leaf spring setup
 
Good god theres a theory behind it all man.It's an adjustable moly pipe with a bellcrank mounted on the forward spring mount.
As the axle ujoint tries to tilt up towards the floor pan under hard acc there is also a rotating motion of the axle.This is called axle wrap.
The front of the spring where it is thinnest in between the mount and the leading edge of the second leaf is the weakest area and it bends upward here as axle wrap occurs.
Now if you have a bar attached to the front of the axle where it can push on the bellcrank under axle wrap this creates a counter force onthe weak area and keeps it from flexing. It's simple lightweight and cheap.And it works. I think a lot of the leafsprings faults can be corrected with solid bushings,a pinion snubber with floor pan reinforcements and a caltrac system..

It's a far more practical system for my needs.Im needing a system for a bracket car that will be street legal. It's more on the serious side but without the tube chassis.I still wanna be able to take it for a burn on the weekends and not hate it.
 
You shouldn't use a snubber with the CalTracs. As far as being practical for a specific need, absolutely. As good as a 4 link or ladder bar, it's not.
 
You don't need caltracs or a 4-link to hook up my duster has nothing more then a set of h.d. leaf springs,pinion snubber and drag shocks..60's in the low 1.40's with the 416.. low 1.60's with the 360...
 
I know I'll have to end up doing something with the rear suspension at some point, the old spring seem to drop mighty low... I was going to trow a set of air shocks in for some fun to get the rear end up and looking good, possibly a set of traction bars or something at some point, need to move the springs in first. Right now debating on how far I want to move them. I'm really not a welder and don't want to cut up my frame rails, but I don't think the 3/4" offset kit is going to do much for squeezing in bigger tires. I know I'll have tub issues at some point as well, but I think I can use more of the tubs with a frame mounted spring than an offset mounted one. I'm thinking 275's for the tires, can you go any higher with frame mounted springs and no tub work (aside from probably rolling the inside fender lip)?
 
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