Percolation? Heat soak? Don't drive during summer??

Fuel and Air Systems

  1. DentalDart

    DentalDart Well-Known Member

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    I'll grab one of those metal ones tomorrow, I had one on before I replaced everything and it seemed to work well, my clear plastic one also worked pretty good as well.
     
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    • billsdartgt

      billsdartgt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Doc, plenty of comments - plenty of good info, one positive thing that you have going is you seemingly can stay at the house and have the problem so no tow truck calls - any time someone has a crazy issue the 1st recommendation is to not throw parts at it which is always good, also new parts these days do not mean good parts, below is my .02 worth

      make sure you have a fire extinguisher close at hand

      find and fix the issue with the weird spark comment - may not be the main source of your problem but it is a problem

      try to find tech info on your electronics (coil, ecu, etc) for cold and hot readings - check all the values you can confirm, when the car shuts down check resistance values on everything for spec, this is tricky because temp affects things

      Jpars comment for a trickle of fuel may or may not work depending on how little a trickle you add, not enough it could vaporize and you wouldn't know if it was an issue or not - this is tricky (hence the fire extinguisher), may take more than a small trickle

      the comment about dirty residue in your old fuel filter could be a sign of the issue - several thoughts - I know some of the old Fords I have worked on have a sock on the pickup tube in the gas tank, I had one that would load up when driving, after setting it would sort of clean itself somehow and then would be back to allowing enough gas flow to start and run - sort of last check but get some fuel line and a spare gas can - when the car won't start pull the fuel line and run to gas can - have someone turn the engine over while watching what is coming out - this could help to isolate a fuel pump/system problem. I would suggest doing this with the engine cold so you had a comparison of what fuel flow looked like before it was hot

      it seems you have replaced several things in your ignition system - as mentioned in many places new parts are not necessarily good parts, with old cars it is not uncommon to have a new issue coincidentally - ballast resistors are the cheapest thing and fairly quick to replace and from what I have learned since owning my Dart is these are very common problems

      recheck all of the electrical connectors that you might have removed are touched during your work - each time an old connector or wire is touched it could cause a problem that adds some extra resistance in a circuit that isn't expected. It is very easy to overlook a small issue when doing the amount of work you did when changing the cam.

      As mentioned you have the benefit of having the car at home, when the car quits check one thing at a time, its easy to overlook what you need to do on multiple things when in a hurry, let the car cool then check the next thing, since you don't need the car to use daily, you don't have tons of money to throw at it, patience and some testing everything is just what you need.

      good luck in the quest, everything mentioned could be the root cause of your issue, ruling out one thing at a time is gonna be the best path
       
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      • DentalDart

        DentalDart Well-Known Member

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        Always a great read with a wealth of information. Im going to start tackling it a little at a time, i got finished somewhat early today so I may go try and stall the car right now :lol:
         
      • 512Stroker

        512Stroker We are all here because we are not all there.

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        Try to make one change at a time, testing in between.
         
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        • j par

          j par Well-hung Member

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          Even though you gave me permission to disagree all I wanted.. (and I wanted LOL..) I can't, that's good advice...:thumbsup:..
           
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          • DentalDart

            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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            So its been running 15-20 minutes and hasn't died yet... its getting a little hot in the garage though. Here is the temp and oil pressure guage 200 temp and 25-45 oil pressure (higher pressure when i rev it and leaking so not 100% accurate). Carb not hot, fuel lines not to hot, fuel pump isn't very hot and can feel the fuel going through the line near the pump... my alternator is definitely charging... at least it says it is, and the charge goes up as i rev it (picture revved at 2k)

            This little ballast resistor... is hot as balls...

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            • DentalDart

              DentalDart Well-Known Member

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              25-30 minutes of idling and revving and it didn't die, what a piece of crap... i ended up shutting it off because my wife was yelling at me that the whole house smelled like old car and that I needed to come in and eat. The temp guage was hitting 220 which is out of my comfort zone for the car as well, I wish it never got past 200* while sitting and idling, I think thats wishful thinking though.

              I'm thinking the ballast resistor doesn't need to be hot as Satan's balls when the engine is running, so maybe I should start with replacing that first... the ecm wasnt to hot when I shut it down and neither was anything else... besides the ballast resistor
               
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              • 318willrun

                318willrun Utube channel 318willrun

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                Ballast resistors are hot
                 
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                • yellow rose

                  yellow rose Master Of Insanity

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                  Sitting in the garage isn’t the same as driving it.
                   
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                  • 512Stroker

                    512Stroker We are all here because we are not all there.

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                    Save your money there is nothing wrong with the resistor, they run dam hot that's why they are mounted in a ceramic cube.
                    If it gets to 220 at idle in your garage you have other issues, no wonder it is stalling out on the road.
                     
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                    • j par

                      j par Well-hung Member

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                      Personally I always pull it out of the garage or push it out of the garage before I start my car. It always stinks up the house if your garage is attached like mine.... I've had to have my wife help me push it back in when it won't restart or I have a problem like that...
                       
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                      • fishmens67

                        fishmens67 Well-Known Member

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                        Plus you don't want your dishes rattling or the picture falling off the wall. lol
                        It's better if the neighbors pictures fall off the wall. lol :D
                         
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                        • kursplat

                          kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          plus you had the hood up letting the heat out
                           
                        • Phreakish

                          Phreakish Well-Known Member

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                          My car always gets hotter running in the garage, even with all the doors open. Airflow isn't as good as when you're in free air... My place in Vegas, I could watch the temp creep up another 10 degrees if I let it idle in the garage before shut down (after the commute home) - let it roll back to the driveway and it would creep down again.

                          The ballast resistor is reducing battery voltage by burning it off as heat, so it gets hot. It's basically like a 40+w bulb that makes no light (hopefully). In case you're not familiar, the ballast is intended to make ignition voltage the same while running and while cranking. Battery volts drop when the engine is cranking so the coil is designed for a hot spark at 9-10v, but then once running the system voltage climbs to 14+, so the ballast is used as a voltage divider to drop the coil volts back down to prevent it burning out from excess current.

                          Too bad it didn't act up... Might take laps around the neighborhood until it does?
                           
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                          • DentalDart

                            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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                            It died after about 15-20 minutes of letting it idle in the garage the other day...

                            It may have been closer to 210 degrees looking back at the picture I took right before turning the car off and the one I posted. My temp guage in the car wasn't even to the half way mark yet. Normal driving it is usually around 190-200 degrees. It has a brand new cooling system.... WP, hoses, Cold Case radiator, transmission cooler and thermostat... It was much hotter in the garage than it was outside the garage.

                            Also the car usually dies/starts to die when I am sitting at a stop light.

                            It died doing the exact same thing the other day, with the hood up. The garage was dang hot.
                             
                            Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
                          • DentalDart

                            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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                            Yea i may take laps around the neighborhood. What a jerk of a car today, making it to where I couldn't test anything with it not dying...

                            My vacuum guage also has a fuel pressure guage integrated into it, but I need to get an adaptor to screw it into my fuel line.
                             
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                            • yellow rose

                              yellow rose Master Of Insanity

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                              LOL...all these cars are jerks!! They will throw you curveballs, knuckleballs and screwballs.

                              It’s just the way it is. Most of this stuff is 50 years old or close to it. These cars were used for daily transportation, and on the weekends they pulled boat trailers, camper trailers, motorcycle trailers...just about anything. So they got used. Hard.

                              And then you have people working on them, which did more damage to these cars than anything else. One of the nightmares I always see when looking at this stuff since I was a kid is the electrical nightmares.

                              Blockheaded dolts installing stereos, cutting wiring, splicing this onto that, using those frigging WIRE NUTS (I hate those things with a passion...they have no place on a car) and stuff like that. Just ruined the car, unless you want to re-wire the entire car. Of course, the seller never wants to come down on price because they are sitting on gold.

                              You’ll get it. These things are kind of a never ending project. There is always something to tinker with or improve.

                              I’ll never forget in the fall of 1979 a couple of guys showed up at my auto shop class. They were from whatever they called the auto repair school down in Phoenix at the time. I think it’s UTI now, but I think it was something different then.

                              Anyway, they came in and said in in 10 years no one would work on their own cars anymore, not even change their oil. That cars would become too “sophisticated” for the vast majority of the public to work on.

                              That the future was paved with gold if you just went to their school and learned to work on the new junk.

                              Sadly, they weren’t wrong. If nothing else, making cars today the way they are, stops the these butchers from wrecking them.
                               
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                              • Johnny Dart

                                Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

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                                ECM ?

                                I'm assuming you ment ECU ?
                                Electronic Control Unit
                                 
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                                • Johnny Dart

                                  Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

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                                  Also, do "NOT" do this with the ignition on !!!!!!!
                                  The round part in the middle of the ECU is called the Switching Transistor. Touch it with the ignition on and you will be getting a very LARGE JOLT !!!!!!!!

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                                  • DentalDart

                                    DentalDart Well-Known Member

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                                    Electric control module is what i meant by ecm, since when i search for the part online at parts stores I have to search by "module" for them to pop up. Everytime I think ECU i think computers and new cars.
                                     
                                  • DentalDart

                                    DentalDart Well-Known Member

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                                    Oh that picture was taken with the car running... the next time I tried to touch it I felt the electric pulses but not a big jolt, I pulled my hand away pretty quick though. I guess you can say I'm faster than electricity lol jk.

                                    The only place I've been shocked from is that damn coil, if the car is running and I get to close to it I get shocked.
                                     
                                  • Johnny Dart

                                    Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

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                                    Ok, since you will never take any of my suggestions, maybe you will listen to Chrysler. Or just go ahead and lick your lips next time you touch it. Sheesh.

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                                    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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                                    • 66fyssh

                                      66fyssh Don't Stop Believin' FABO Gold Member

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                                      When I sold them in the late 80's we called them Ignition Control Modules, or just Ignition Modules. Lots of different names for everything.
                                       
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                                      • Phreakish

                                        Phreakish Well-Known Member

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                                        Um. Another red flag. The coil shouldn't zap you if everything is working correctly and your wires are well connected and in good condition!

                                        If it zaps you, there's something wrong. Could be a few things - coil wire boots not sealing, cracked coil tower, bad wires, bad ground, etc. I think you've got a few 'little' things conspiring into a larger problem when warm/hot.
                                         
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                                        • Mattax

                                          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                                          In common lingo, people often say 'alternator charging' when they mean alternator is supplying power to the car.
                                          That's NOT what you are seeing on the "alternator" gage here.
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                                          This is showing the alternator supplying power to the battery.
                                          D = Battery Discharging
                                          C = Battery Charging.

                                          Notice where the ammeter is in the circuit?
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                                          Its between the battery and the main splice.
                                          Current flows through the ammeter only when the battery is discharging or charging.
                                          With a fully recharged battery and a working alternator, no current flows through the ammeter.

                                          More charging with rpm means one of two things.
                                          1. Battery is extremely low on charge or is damaged.
                                          2. Voltage isn't properly regulated so its going up with rpm.
                                          Fix this because it will cause all sorts of problems, some of them potentially disasterous.
                                           
                                          Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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