t5 trans swap?

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twofosho said:
I appreciate the offer of a P M, but having followed this thread with great interest from it's beginning, I'm sure many others here will want you to share with them too.

A little background to show why we decided get a shell to jig up with;
My Feather is a factory 4 spd car and I'm very reluctant to carve up the tunnel. While I have a Mustang T5 and I'm sure I would enjoy it behind my 340, I'm leaning more toward the cast iron 833OD I picked up a couple of years back (I want to rebuild the aluminum one and keep it behind the slant). I'm using iron manifolds to begin with to facilitate using a stock type clutch linkage and Firm Feel fast ratio steering arms with power steering (car was/is 4spd, power steering, manual disc brake car). Also, after I convert to four wheel disc, I may see the need for a power booster.

My friend has both a Dart 4dr and a 68 Barracuda, both are automatics he plans on converting to T5s. With a triple Weber DCOE setup on the slant in one, and a stout LA (with a Quick Time bell) in the other it should get interesting.

We both enjoy showing the taillights on a "grandma's car" to the ricers around a corner. Listening to a great sounding motor winding up though the gears is fun too.
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well everyone here is going the hydraulic route- it seems to be the hot ticket...if you want to know the parts for the mechanical linkage swap just ask and ill share...no one has really asked out right what parts are nescessary, and to be honest im not sure if you are either lol
 
i didnt know mechanical linkage was very possible lol. how are you doing that? and ya what parts would one need to do it?
 
The T45 trans is for the Ford modular engine. 4.6 and 5.4. they have a different bellhousing and bolt pattern for the housing. To my knowledge no one builds a different bellhousing for them to be used on anything else. Don't quote me though. People come up with new stuff all the time.
 
When I emailed Quick Time about using the T45 with the RM6071 bell I have this was his response:
No, the T45 has an intregal bell, which means that the bell is the front cover to the transmission. Keisler makes a front cover plate for the T45, that plate will bolt to the RM-6071. Thanks for your interest in QuickTime products.

Thanks,
Ross McCombs
President/CEO
QuickTime Inc.
641-673-4468

-Jon

737jetdr said:
The T45 trans is for the Ford modular engine. 4.6 and 5.4. they have a different bellhousing and bolt pattern for the housing. To my knowledge no one builds a different bellhousing for them to be used on anything else. Don't quote me though. People come up with new stuff all the time.
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tyler_s18 said:
i didnt know mechanical linkage was very possible lol. how are you doing that? and ya what parts would one need to do it?
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I said a bunch of times that i wasnt using the hyrdaulic route...that was the hardest part, figuring out how to make it work without the hyrdaulic stuff...for starters your going to need mopar 4 speed stuff, and the quicktime bell with the PROPER mopar fork bracket
 
Thanks for the info, Fenderman! That might be the way I'll go. Kinda hate to adapt to an adapter but the trans was just too good a deal to pass up.

12k miles, orig owner who knows how to drive and doesn't like tire smoke, 150.00

I had to!

Well, back to overtime for more parts.
 
mshred said:
I said a bunch of times that i wasnt using the hyrdaulic route...that was the hardest part, figuring out how to make it work without the hyrdaulic stuff...for starters your going to need mopar 4 speed stuff, and the quicktime bell with the PROPER mopar fork bracket
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ok. i havent been able to follow this thread in great detail yet. that will be pretty sweet. what made you choose that not hydrolic? or is that back in the thread to lol
 
tyler_s18 said:
ok. i havent been able to follow this thread in great detail yet. that will be pretty sweet. what made you choose that not hydrolic? or is that back in the thread to lol
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i chose it for the fact that i already had the peices for the 4 speed stuff, plus i didnt want to spend the money on a hyrdaulic setup...also, imho mechanical is better in a performance application over hyrdaulic...but my main reason was cost- im a cheapo who is going broke building his car
 
well more headaches! i got everything hooked up, clutch linkage, starter and all but when i push down on the clutch pedal the whole starter braket on the bellhousing and starter itself move...its looks like it will eventually break the bracket or even worse the bellhousing...i have all the parts in the right way too! I have to call Ross at quicktime and see what he says, but i cant see any real solutions to the problem other than making a tranny brace for it, which i really dont want to do since im done with getting this tranny working...if its not one thing its another...im gonna cross my fingers and see what he says
 
mshred - you are in a tough spot. That flange is pretty weak where the starter bolts to the quicktime bellhousing. It just kind of hangs out there. I think you will have to make a brace to prevent it from flexing.

I commend you for committing to making it work. The narrower early a forced my decision early on to spend the $$$$$$$ on the hydraulic set up. I can't imagine making a work with the stock type linkage. Post some pictures once you figure it out. I feel your pain.
 
socal_65dartgt said:
mshred - you are in a tough spot. That flange is pretty weak where the starter bolts to the quicktime bellhousing. It just kind of hangs out there. I think you will have to make a brace to prevent it from flexing.

I commend you for committing to making it work. The narrower early a forced my decision early on to spend the $$$$$$$ on the hydraulic set up. I can't imagine making a work with the stock type linkage. Post some pictures once you figure it out. I feel your pain.
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Thanks bro! it just gets frustrating at times, especially when it seems like you have made progress and more roadblocks occur...i called up Ross the tech guy at quicktime and hes super nice about the whole thing...he said that theyve never had this happen before, and that this weekend he is going to mock up a bellhousing with my same setup and see what he can do in regards to making a reinforcement bracket...he should be giving me a call back this weekend...until i hear from him im working out the car's wiring (and there is alot) so i have enough to keep me busy until then....hopefully he or we can come up with something...I was going to post pictures yesterday as i was stoked that it was finally done, then my dad had me push the clutch pedal and we saw the problem...I have been reluctant to post all the parts needed for the t5 swap with mechanical linkage because i havent actually fully finished and i figured things might change, and its good i am still waiting, because sure enough more mods are in order lol...we shall see what happens
 
mshred said:
Thanks bro! it just gets frustrating at times, especially when it seems like you have made progress and more roadblocks occur...i called up Ross the tech guy at quicktime and hes super nice about the whole thing...he said that theyve never had this happen before, and that this weekend he is going to mock up a bellhousing with my same setup and see what he can do in regards to making a reinforcement bracket...he should be giving me a call back this weekend...until i hear from him im working out the car's wiring (and there is alot) so i have enough to keep me busy until then....hopefully he or we can come up with something...I was going to post pictures yesterday as i was stoked that it was finally done, then my dad had me push the clutch pedal and we saw the problem...I have been reluctant to post all the parts needed for the t5 swap with mechanical linkage because i havent actually fully finished and i figured things might change, and its good i am still waiting, because sure enough more mods are in order lol...we shall see what happens
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Quick questions;
Are you running the block plate between the bell and the block?
Are you running a Borg & Beck (3 finger), or a diaphragm pressure plate?
Are you running a magnum motor?

A couple of thoughts;
I just assumed the supplied block plate and clutch ball plate would stiffen the bell assembly enough to use the stock torque arm (Z bar). As my car is a factory 4 speed car, I don't want to abandon the factory clutch linkage for a hydraulic setup.
Perhaps a doubler flange of 3/16" or 1/4" material on the back side of the bell mounting flange, and tying into more mounting bolts beyond the starter pocket would help. Welding flat stock onto the edge of this add on plate turning it into a "T" around the starter pocket would strengthen it yet again. Extending this add on bracket or the supplied clutch ball bracket forward to engine mounting bosses (not unlike the stock slant six bellhousing brace) certainly would work if all else fails, with motor mount bosses, the oil pan rail, or even the exhaust mounting surface of the head all possible tie in points. If you're running a Magnum motor with stock A body motor mounts, tying into the additional pickup motor mount bosses would be a natural. Perhaps just tying the motor mounting flange around the starter pocket to the transmission mounting bolt flange would be enough.
All in all not a deal breaker, just more work.
 
twofosho said:
Quick questions;
Are you running the block plate between the bell and the block?
Are you running a Borg & Beck (3 finger), or a diaphragm pressure plate?
Are you running a magnum motor?

A couple of thoughts;
I just assumed the supplied block plate and clutch ball plate would stiffen the bell assembly enough to use the stock torque arm (Z bar). As my car is a factory 4 speed car, I don't want to abandon the factory clutch linkage for a hydraulic setup.
Perhaps a doubler flange of 3/16" or 1/4" material on the back side of the bell mounting flange, and tying into more mounting bolts beyond the starter pocket would help. Welding flat stock onto the edge of this add on plate turning it into a "T" around the starter pocket would strengthen it yet again. Extending this add on bracket or the supplied clutch ball bracket forward to engine mounting bosses (not unlike the stock slant six bellhousing brace) certainly would work if all else fails, with motor mount bosses, the oil pan rail, or even the exhaust mounting surface of the head all possible tie in points. If you're running a Magnum motor with stock A body motor mounts, tying into the additional pickup motor mount bosses would be a natural. Perhaps just tying the motor mounting flange around the starter pocket to the transmission mounting bolt flange would be enough.
All in all not a deal breaker, just more work.
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yes there is a midplate between the block (made out of thin aluminum- ross at quicktime thinks that if he sends us a steel one from their sfi approved version of my bell that it could help but in all honesty the mounting for the starter at the bellhousing is very thin to begin with...I am running a diaphram pressure plate (ford king cobra) and it is a 69 340 not a magnum motor.

Ive had a couple tell me that it could be because im using a diaphram over the borg and beck i could be overreleasing and therefore the pressure plate fingers could be hitting the disc and causing this flexing requiring a clutch pedal stop or different z bar ratios to correct it...another has suggested that i need to check for overcentering with a diaphram style pp bcause they have a tendency to stick down and could very likely bend the linkage
 
well Ross at quicktime called me back and he tested out the same bell i have (the non sfi approved clearance bell) and sure enough he had the same problem (something he said he has not encountered on the sfi approved one)..He has made up a bracket that he tested and said took out pretty much all of the deflection and he is going to send it to me for free! that is what i call customer service! I can definatly vouche for quicktime now as he has been super helpful between this and my fork bracket problem that i had...he even said that if this doesnt do it for me, he will send me a steel midplate that they include in the sfi bell since mine is the aluminum style...so it should be here sometime this week and we shall see what happens!
 
mshred said:
well Ross at quicktime called me back and he tested out the same bell i have (the non sfi approved clearance bell) and sure enough he had the same problem (something he said he has not encountered on the sfi approved one)..He has made up a bracket that he tested and said took out pretty much all of the deflection and he is going to send it to me for free! that is what i call customer service! I can definatly vouche for quicktime now as he has been super helpful between this and my fork bracket problem that i had...he even said that if this doesnt do it for me, he will send me a steel midplate that they include in the sfi bell since mine is the aluminum style...so it should be here sometime this week and we shall see what happens!
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Good news, I'll give him a call this week.

As far as pushing the bellevue spring of the diaphragm too far, the fingers of a Borg and Beck would be more likely to cause interference in this way than the modern raised cone diaphragm, but it's still not inconceivable. With the big window provided for the throwout arm in the Quick Time, observing bearing movement and plate departure should be doable although it might require one of those "mirror on a stick" devices. My friend and I planned to make up a new torque shaft with double shear arms mated to Heims to address the "slop" in the factory linkage, and as I have a new diaphragm clutch going in, I guess it's time to check this too and modify the torque shaft lever arm lengths if necessary.
 
well i checked the clutch pedal and clutch movement and its definatly not anything to do with the pressure plate...my dad is really experienced with clutches as hes worked on them all his life and he told me its definatly not the pp affecting it....and now that ross told me he has the same problem, I am not worried about it being the pressure plate at all, but i wont know for sure until the peice he made up for me gets here and i put it on....what do you need to call him for? do you have the same bell and plan on using the 4 speed clutch linkage as well?
 
well Ross at quicktime called me back and he tested out the same bell i have (the non sfi approved clearance bell) and sure enough he had the same problem (something he said he has not encountered on the sfi approved one)..He has made up a bracket that he tested and said took out pretty much all of the deflection and he is going to send it to me for free! that is what i call customer service! I can definatly vouche for quicktime now as he has been super helpful between this and my fork bracket problem that i had...he even said that if this doesnt do it for me, he will send me a steel midplate that they include in the sfi bell since mine is the aluminum style...so it should be here sometime this week and we shall see what happens!
Click to expand...

Wow! That is customer service! I have heard great things about Ross from others and have had excellent service from him too. Nice to see that he takes his product development serious and doesn't push it back on us customers (you must be doing it wrong....etc.).

I will miss my install goal date of Labor Day. Still trying to coordinate lift-time. I'm hoping to get my t5 in by the end of September.

Keep the success stories coming - I could use the inspiration.
 
socal_65dartgt said:
Wow! That is customer service! I have heard great things about Ross from others and have had excellent service from him too. Nice to see that he takes his product development serious and doesn't push it back on us customers (you must be doing it wrong....etc.).

I will miss my install goal date of Labor Day. Still trying to coordinate lift-time. I'm hoping to get my t5 in by the end of September.

Keep the success stories coming - I could use the inspiration.
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yes ross is a standup guy....the peice he made came in and unfortunatly like i thought it didnt cure the problem...the deflection has been reduced by about half but its still there...the only solution is to make a reinforcement and put in a steel midplate...im going to be giving ross a call and ask him to send me a steel midplate since he said before if this didnt work he would have to send...this is the last thing i have to deal with for the swap...everything else has been completed- i even had the speedo cable solution worked out from just junkyard parts! i will post some pics of everything once i am completely done with the swap...and socal dart, thats not surprising- things always get in the way or mess things up, i know first hand- the scamp was supposed to be on the road this summer, now ill just be happy if i get it around the block a couple of times with open headers lol:toothy10:
 
Alright guys. Did my first 40 mile road trip today to the frame shop. 2200 rpm at 70 mph in overdrive. Nice! no vibrations. .68 overdrive gear and 26" tires with 3.91 suregrip. Hydraulic clutch works flawlessly and smooth. It took a lot of work but I am happy with the finished product.
 
good to hear another member has had success! the one guy doing the mechanical clutch linkage swap (me) has still yet to complete without problems....i still have to make up that bracket to support the flexing, but not that it matters since the car doesnt even run yet and is going into storage very soon
 
737jetdr said:
Alright guys. Did my first 40 mile road trip today to the frame shop. 2200 rpm at 70 mph in overdrive. Nice! no vibrations. .68 overdrive gear and 26" tires with 3.91 suregrip. Hydraulic clutch works flawlessly and smooth. It took a lot of work but I am happy with the finished product.
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so please remind us what all you did wit hthe hyd set up,,,,

and congrats on your sucess
 
Ok, I compiled a list of parts that i used to complete my installation. i'm not saying that this is the best way and I'm sure there are other similiar parts that will do the same job.This is what works in my car.

Stock a body clutch pedal assy.-don't need the big spring if you use a hyd clutch.
T5 tranny- 87-93 ford fox body mustang v8 car.
Mopar flywheel- i drilled mine for a ford pressure plate
quicktime bellhousing - $440
mustang clutch fork - $22.00 new
Keisler pilot bearing- -$28.00
Mcleod adjustable throwout bearing p/n 16515 $96.00
Mcleod adjustable ball stud p/n 16909 $50.00
Mustang clutch kit - $160.00
T5 driveshaft yoke- $30.00 new on ebay
68 mustang speedo cable for auto tranny- $15.00 new
T5 speedo gear- $24.00 on ebay for a kit new has 5 different gears
Ford auto tranny mount from mid 70s ford car with auto trans. - taller than mustang tranny mount. $15.00 new
CNC slave cylinder - $65.00 new p/n cnc305-b
CNC adjustable slave rod- $18.00 p/n 1312
Keisler clutch master cylinder kit w/ reservoir - $280.00
steel braided line and fittings for clutch - $25.00 from local supplier
Stock auto tranny crossmember- Modified

My bellhousing came drilled for the stock mopar ball stud. I drilled and tapped another hole for the Ford clutch fork. Mopar fork is a pull design. Ford is a push design. I fabricated a bracket for the slave cylinder to mount to the tranny. I think you can buy one from the guys at modern driveline . I recommend a close ratio T5 shifter. Mine is a Hurst. The factory ford shifters are ok but don't hold up to a lot of abuse and used ones are usually worn out. I chose to use Ford clutch parts but I am sure a mopar 10.5" clutch can probably be used. The clutch plate has to fit the T5 splines though. I hope this helps. I posted pics earlier in the posting. If I was to do it again I would probably use a hydraulic throwout bearing such as a Mcleod p/n 1302. No bracket needed to mount it. No clutch fork or ball stud used. a little cleaner installation. It took me about a year to round up these parts and make them all work. I'm on a budget just like everyone else. I do like the results.
 
very nice ,, just curious as to the advantage using the ford fork ?? are you using a CNC pusher or puller slave ??? and what master cylinder??? did you use the ford fork, so you could use a ford throw out bearing because of the input shaft diameter??
 
No advantage to using the ford parts other than they have been used with the T5 trans for years. Just easier to buy them and modify the bellhousing as opposed to mixing mopar parts and guessing if they would work. I can purchase mustang parts anywhere if I ever breakdown on the road.The CNC slave is a pusher. The master cylinder is a Wilwood unit that I bought as a kit from Keisler.
 
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