t5 trans swap?

-
A couple of other little things that I learned doing this swap.

Speedometer cable for a 1967 Ford Fairlane fits our A bodies perfect when using a T5.

Change the speedometer drive gear on the tailshaft of the T5 to a black 6 tooth gear. This makes choosing a gear for the speedometer cable that will last a lot easier.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/T5-6-TOOTH-SPEEDOMETER-DRIVE-GEAR-1983-1998/p/HW2241/
 
fstfish, My T5 is from a 92 mustang gt. The 1st gear is 3.35 and the o.d. is .68. Ford T5s have a 10 spline input shaft. The idea setup for my car would be the optional gear set which has a 2.95 1st gear and the o.d. gear is .63. I have an extra T5 that I plan on building with the 2.95 gear set. There is usually a tag on the T5 that identifies it. The id number starts with a 1352- . The - number at the end tells which T5 it is .

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html

There is a company that is building heavy duty T5s called G Force.They can probably tell you more about them.

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp

jetdr, i remember talking with you when you started your conversion,,,i thought u were going TKO,, any way thanks for the info,,,last year i was at a drag race,,and a guy from G FORCE was there,,he didnt have much faith in his own built heavy duty version of the T5 for my car,,even tho i dont beat it i drive it like an every day car usualy,,,with the ocasional grabbing 2nd and 3rd,,,and his cost was more the a TKO,,
 
thanks fstfish, good to know about G force.I have rebuilt 3 T5s myself now using stock parts with good success. I don't beat on my cars either. I rebuilt one for my friend that he put in his 64 Falcon with a stroker motor. He made several passes down the strip with it several weeks ago with no problems. Guess it's all in how you drive it.
 
jetdr, i remember talking with you when you started your conversion,,,i thought u were going TKO,, any way thanks for the info,,,last year i was at a drag race,,and a guy from G FORCE was there,,he didnt have much faith in his own built heavy duty version of the T5 for my car,,even tho i dont beat it i drive it like an every day car usualy,,,with the ocasional grabbing 2nd and 3rd,,,and his cost was more the a TKO,,

Just food for thought, check out the mustang forums for more info on the Gforce tranny. I don't know if anyone has heard of breakage of one yet.

I even found info of a guy using a much "weaker" cobra R tranny on a 400+hp 400+tq on a road race mustang with out much trouble. A lot of what i read said that the clutch & driving style were what killed T5's

Also the apparent downside to the TKO is that some people complain of notchy shifting compared to the T5.


Sidenote, just got my quicktime bellhousing tonight. Tomorrow i'll be hunting for a T5 at the wreckers.
 
any one know if the ford TKO and the T5 are by chance the same bolt pattern ???

jetdr how did the T 5 fit around the torsion bar cross member??
 
Wow 11 pages,I just cant bring myself to skim through it all. There was a mention of a toyota supra transmission in the jalopy journal link that I'd love to here more about.

How much power can these toyo transmissions stand up too?

What is involved to put one behind a big block?

I seem to remember one member here installing a supra trans??
 
fstfish, it didn't. I had to notch the torsion bar crossmember to make it fit. I welded the crossmember to the floor pan on both sides of the cut out and I used a 1/4" steel plate on the inside of the car over top of the crossmember on both side as well. welded the plate to the floorpan over the crossmember and used grade 8 bolts to bolt the crossmember to the 1/4" steel plates. didnt want to take any chances. Carpet and padding covers it all up. I will probably keep this car forever so I figured I would make it the car that I want.
 
Wow 11 pages,I just cant bring myself to skim through it all. There was a mention of a toyota supra transmission in the jalopy journal link that I'd love to here more about.

How much power can these toyo transmissions stand up too?

What is involved to put one behind a big block?

I seem to remember one member here installing a supra trans??

I don't know if its possible behind the big block.

The supra transmission(r154) involved using a bellhousing from a 3.9 dakota w/ the ax15 transmission. This bellhousing bolts to any mopar smallblock and the ax15 has the same bolt pattern as the r154.

Google mopar r154 swap and look for the link to slantsix.org. I believe they have a pretty good write up on it.
 
Wow 11 pages,I just cant bring myself to skim through it all. There was a mention of a toyota supra transmission in the jalopy journal link that I'd love to here more about.

How much power can these toyo transmissions stand up too?

What is involved to put one behind a big block?

I seem to remember one member here installing a supra trans??
Are you sure it wasn't the guy who installed a 7MGTE Supra engine in?

The Supra transmission is supposedly weak and would need some building up.
Thats just from what little reading I have done on the T5 vs it, even from what I read on an SRT4 build
 
I dunno Dartt. You know how these threads go. For every guy who says it wont work or it will explode,there will be 2-3 who say it worked for them..

I'd seriously consider a T-56 swap,but thier too damn much money!

Even an A-833 o.d swap will get expensive. $1700 for the Passon hemi gear set so it will live,plus a heavy cast iron gear case.

Doesnt seem to be ANY manual trans I can swap straight in with a few mods. None of them wll live up to my expectations at 650 h.p.

About the closest is a viper t-56,but criminy those thing are $1200 just for a used trans.
 
I dunno Dartt. You know how these threads go. For every guy who says it wont work or it will explode,there will be 2-3 who say it worked for them..

I'd seriously consider a T-56 swap,but thier too damn much money!

Even an A-833 o.d swap will get expensive. $1700 for the Passon hemi gear set so it will live,plus a heavy cast iron gear case.

Doesnt seem to be ANY manual trans I can swap straight in with a few mods. None of them wll live up to my expectations at 650 h.p.

About the closest is a viper t-56,but criminy those thing are $1200 just for a used trans.
That's just how it is sadly. A good example of this worked for me is the 7 1/4, apparently theres a guy or two on here who had them backing BBs in their A-bodies.

Here's a little more info on the R-154
http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/pages/technical/R154.htm
 
fstfish, it didn't. I had to notch the torsion bar crossmember to make it fit. I welded the crossmember to the floor pan on both sides of the cut out and I used a 1/4" steel plate on the inside of the car over top of the crossmember on both side as well. welded the plate to the floorpan over the crossmember and used grade 8 bolts to bolt the crossmember to the 1/4" steel plates. didnt want to take any chances. Carpet and padding covers it all up. I will probably keep this car forever so I figured I would make it the car that I want.

i think i remember you posting pics of it on the hyd clutch topic,,,so the T5 isnt an easy swap either,,think ill stick with my 3.09 first gear 1965 formula S 4 speed for now,,and ill consider selling my new quick time scatter shield,,,its still a great bell housing for an early A with dual patterns,,
 
It's a sweet trans,apparently much stronger than the R154.I think it's made in Germany for Toyota. BUT...It's also pretty expensive.
yep, same goes for any of their products. They make a dual layover shaft FWD transmission that is used in Mini Cooper S and Ford SVT Focus. Its wicked for a FWD transmission
 
Wow 11 pages,I just cant bring myself to skim through it all. There was a mention of a toyota supra transmission in the jalopy journal link that I'd love to here more about.

How much power can these toyo transmissions stand up too?

What is involved to put one behind a big block?

I seem to remember one member here installing a supra trans??

As mentioned, the R154 is similar to the AX15 found in the Dakotas and some others. Although the AX15 is stout in stock trim you will need to invest some money if you are making serious power. There are some Supra guys putting almost a 1000hp to the modified R series but they have $$$ invested in the trans.
The biggest issue with the trans is the very odd front bearing retainer but there is at least one company machining a new/different/normal looking one. The problem with it is that A.) its not cheap and B.) it makes the input shaft that much shorter...not good on a Mopar bell.
I have some AX15 info on my web site if you want to look around.

If you have: an aluminum bell for the B; a MIG/TIG; know how to weld alum; a milling machine; and lots of free time you could graft the mounting face from the oem AX15 bell onto the B bell.
 
Im looking for the most economical swap that will withstand 650 h.p and give me and o.d that wont grenade easily. I dont want a huge transmission tunnel either,it just looks terrible. An A 518 wound be o.k,it doesnt make too huge of a floor hump but apparently the o.d units arent very strong and dont last.

So now Im looking at manual trans,with a 5 or 6 speed being the most desireable.

An 833 o.d with passon hemi gears o.d set would run better than 2 grand,but so far it's actually looking economical compared to some of these other trans

A viper trans is a huge floor hump,me no likey.Im assuming the same trans from any car would be the same size.
 
ive done a little bit of research on the T5 itself, and it seems that im going to need to upgrade it a bit in order for it to handle the power of the 340 (even though my 340 is going to be very mild). I think the most clarification i need though is what is actually involved in performing the swap into the mopars so i will have to message american powertrain and gmachinedart and talk to them i guess

Morning Gents,

On the eve of American Powertrain's launch of the A-body T-5 kit (looking to bolt in today or tomorrow) I thought I would put together some clarifications on the capabilities and applications of the T5:

First, the only "new" T5 at this point is the Z-Spec or Cobra-spec Mustang T5. This is a pretty strong box with about a 330ft-lb rating, a warranty and a shift position that is about the same as the A-body fore and aft. This T5 with our new bell housing will fit the A-body pretty well out of the box, though driveline and carb angles look to be a little low due to the shifter tube hitting the torsion bar cross member. We are working on a fix but may require a little dimpling or relief in the member for proper installation.

On the "built" front, the T5 can be upgraded to handle about 500 ft-lbs before it runs out of capability. Gearboxes are limited by their basic architecture, and in the case of the T5 this is about all the case and shafts can handle before the torque load spreads the shafts apart, ballooning the case and causing fireworks inside the box. In addition, at 500ft-lbs the T5 becomes more expensive than the TKO.

Keep in mind that the blue oval folks routinely run built T-5 gearboxes in nine and ten second fox bodies, so this little gearbox is constantly doing more than the numbers say it can do.

The S-10 T5 came in two flavors. They both have the front shift position, making them great for bench seat street rods but not so good for the A-body shift position. On the other hand, they have a bare tail housing meaning they will clear the torsion bar cross member. Early ones were rated for about 180ft-lbs and had mechanical speedo output. Later ones, called "world class" were rated for 215ft-bls and had electronic speedo output only. This means either going to an electronic speedo or spending $350 on a conversion box.

Finally, there is the Camaro T5. This box is rated at about 280ft-lbs and has a shift position that is nearly identical to the Mustang. However, these gearboxes were made to mount at a 17-degree clocked rotation, making them a bear to mount in normal apps. Other uphill battles includes mating them to Chrylser blocks and getting the clutch to actuate properly.

There were other T5 apps out there, but these were by far the highest volume. You can find T5's from 6-cylinder Mustangs and even Datsun 280z cars.

All in all, the T5 is a good unit with high quality shifting and performance only limited by torque. For small block A-body guys we can cover about 80% of the under hood applications with T-5 gearboxes that will hold up to the abuse. Those with too much power for a T-5 can always opt for the TKO.

The upcoming kit will include a sophisticated offset shifter with the OE shift position, speedometer and mounting solutions and a brand new aluminum bell housing (steel SFI available for those who need them).

Hope this helps. Questions are welcome.
 
Well,you could at least try to help us big block guys! You covered the small block app very well,but there is nothing for a bb?
 
Well,you could at least try to help us big block guys! You covered the small block app very well,but there is nothing for a bb?

We have always had the big block cars covered with the TKO kit. We make a brand new big block/Hemi bell housing for putting the TKO on the back of the engine that also fits the 23-spline and 18-spline A833. Since we can prep a TKO to run with up to 950ft-lbs we have almost anything that is streetable and most race applications covered.

Unfortunately, as you probably already realize, it is more work to get the TKO in the car. But the benefits, better durability, fuel mileage and cruising RPMs generally outweigh the work needed on the car.

Can you properly stuff a TKO in a one-owner mint survivor car? No. But let's face it, if you have a big cube engine with a ton of power your car is probably not looking to win any awards for originality anyway.

And don't forget, we can put a Magnum 6-speed together for you too. Be prepared to break out the torch and hammer though.

Off topic: what the hell is this thing? :blob:
 
My apologies. Lol,I felt left out by your previous post which didnt mention anything,but you made up for it.

TKO. What does that come in from the factory?

And your right,my Dart aint no trailer queen or concours car. It's my Dart,it's highly modified (when done) and all I really want in an O.D is to reduce engine wear and boost mileage,plus retain my sanity by not listening to a big block buzz at 3000 rpm for hours on end. I'll need to do hiway driving to go anywhere around here.

I am thinking that just swapping gear /centre chucks is a more affordable option for me. $500 or so for a decent 489 or 742 with track gears is reasonable,and alot less that a trans swap,but I got this pesky disease called M.S. Laying under the car and swapping the chuck will get real old,real fast.
 
My apologies. Lol,I felt left out by your previous post which didnt mention anything,but you made up for it.

TKO. What does that come in from the factory?


And your right,my Dart aint no trailer queen or concours car. It's my Dart,it's highly modified (when done) and all I really want in an O.D is to reduce engine wear and boost mileage,plus retain my sanity by not listening to a big block buzz at 3000 rpm for hours on end. I'll need to do hiway driving to go anywhere around here.


I am thinking that just swapping gear /centre chucks is a more affordable option for me. $500 or so for a decent 489 or 742 with track gears is reasonable,and alot less that a trans swap,but I got this pesky disease called M.S. Laying under the car and swapping the chuck will get real old,real fast.


The TKO is an aftermarket only gearbox built specifically for companies like American Powertrain to fit to cars like your Dart.

But I gotta tell ya, for $500 you got me beat by a mile. On the other hand, running up the rear ratio will be a trade-off for rpm reduction in exchange for reduced performance. A 5-speed is a better all around solution, but the dollars and time on your back may be a deal killer. In the end, make sure whatever you do is what makes you happy with your own car. That's what I would do.

If you decide to go with a 5-speed let us know and we will ship you a good one!
 
Awesome! Im definitly in search of a Viper T56 and am hoping to score one from the Woodhouse Viper Team as they have since retired and are unloading stuff. I talked to the teams drivetrain wrench today and he is gonna do some digging around for me,fingers crossed! He did say he would sell me a brand new tr6060 with gear ratios of my choice and with his personal tweaks for about $3200 ARGH!!!! Well that is out of my range. D&D performance advertises a T56 Magnum for $2795 and if you guys match that price id definitly buy from you! I know I want a newer one with the solid countershaft and 2.66 first with .80 5th and .63 sixth respectively fo sho. With a 4.10 Dana and one of those it would be goodnight Irene!
 
-
Back
Top