Tame my 4-speed Stroker....

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Like a bunch old women sometimes. lol
I'm enjoying this thread, it confirms my reason for only using a stick for towing my boat.
Carry on !
 
And it's just now September, imagine the whizzing matches winter will bring. LOL
 
Whizzing match?
So far I think you are the only one that took a shot at me...?

You obviously haven't read all the posts.

BTW my "shot" at you was in fun, maybe you don't take it as well as you dish it out.
 
I've been in this zoo long enough to know which bears you can poke and which lions not to feed.
It's all good. I take everything with a grain of salt.
 
It be great if 1 bear stop growling....... and beating the dead horse.... to people that don’t wanna year or care to hear what he has to say..... Regardless of how correct he think he is....
 
You obviously haven't read all the posts.

BTW my "shot" at you was in fun, maybe you don't take it as well as you dish it out.
Hey stop busted my nuts LOL...
You mean my post number 145 where I have the "LOL" at the end of it?
Obviously? You must not be reading the several posts then I've commented I'm not seeing all the post because I don't want to talk with agitators who are not talking about the subject. The subject is the clutch tamer. do you recommend I just go ahead and start another thread that way this one can go on to a conversation that other people want to take it too? I'm probably just about one or two more negative comments away from just skipping it and letting everybody figure out how to do it themselves as well...
 
I actually had some time slips from the summer that I wanted to post so I could give comparison if there's a possibility I could make it back to the track this fall. It seems like everybody would rather the drama of some agitator...
 
I was at the track yesterday ... where there were at least 3 cars running regular bias tires, ex manifolds, leaving soft, and running mid-11’s.
Easy peasy.
:usflag:
 
This "sintered iron disc", I'm probably just going to have to look up on your website and make some kind of decision. I know in my application I need a 10 and a half inch disc with 23 spline. I haven't one problem changing a disc or anything like that. I doubt if I'll invest in anything expensive right away until I at least trash mine...

Sintered iron is just the friction material, it comes in a few different flavors and configurations.
If you have synchros, probably the Ram 900 series disc mentioned earlier would be my choice for iron. It's fairly street friendly with a marcel and damped hub.
A little less street friendly, Ram can make you a "Coyote Special" to suit your input shaft, which has larger iron pucks, no marcel, and a damped hub.
Full face iron is no marcel, no damped hub, and weighs a little over 5lbs with the weight concentrated around the outside. Not synchro friendly.

If yours was the staggered 6 puck I saw earlier in the thread, might not be optimum but will work far better than it did after it's tamed. I actually like the staggered design as it expands the usable wear surface of the flywheel/PP, it also pulls 3 of those pucks closer to the center of rotation which eases the load on the synchros a bit.

EDIT- your tamer went out Friday, should be there tues with mon being a holiday.

Grant
 
I was at the track yesterday ... where there were at least 3 cars running regular bias tires, ex manifolds, leaving soft, and running mid-11’s.
Easy peasy.
:usflag:
I'm totally cool with leaving soft, but I can just imagine this Tamer will make that possible with some serious consistency?
 
Sintered iron is just the friction material, it comes in a few different flavors and configurations.
If you have synchros, probably the Ram 900 series disc mentioned earlier would be my choice for iron. It's fairly street friendly with a marcel and damped hub.
A little less street friendly, Ram can make you a "Coyote Special" to suit your input shaft, which has larger iron pucks, no marcel, and a damped hub.
Full face iron is no marcel, no damped hub, and weighs a little over 5lbs with the weight concentrated around the outside. Not synchro friendly.

If yours was the staggered 6 puck I saw earlier in the thread, might not be optimum but will work far better than it did after it's tamed. I actually like the staggered design as it expands the usable wear surface of the flywheel/PP, it also pulls 3 of those pucks closer to the center of rotation which eases the load on the synchros a bit.

EDIT- your tamer went out Friday, should be there tues with mon being a holiday.

Grant
Thank you for getting that in the mail. If I'm reading you correctly that six-puck may be a viable option for me to try? (Free). Also in another post I mentioned something about using the Tamer only on the first hit and not afterwards?
 
Another question would it be possible or beneficial in any way for this to be used only on the initial hit? Being able to disable it once you're in first gear?

If you release the clutch pedal from the stop for launch but only stab the pedal for the shifts, the 'tamer will have much less affect on the shifts.

My car currently has the HitMaster system in place. It has a curve almost identical to the 'tamer prior to the hit, but after the hit I am able to adjust the slip duration of the clutch using timers. There are separate timers for launch vs shifts, I can tell you there is some benefit to having less slip on the shifts vs what's needed for launch. For the basic 'tamer, my paragraph above does pretty much the same thing but with less precision.

EDIT- Free is good, if that's what I had I would not hesitate to use it.

Grant
 
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If you release the clutch pedal from the stop for launch but only stab the pedal for the shifts, the 'tamer will have much less affect on the shifts.

My car currently has the HitMaster system in place. It has a curve almost identical to the 'tamer prior to the hit, but after the hit I am able to adjust the slip duration of the clutch using timers. There are separate timers for launch vs shifts, I can tell you there is some benefit to having less slip on the shifts vs what's needed for launch. For the basic 'tamer, my paragraph above does pretty much the same thing but with less precision.

EDIT- Free is good, if that's what I had I would not hesitate to use it.

Grant
Thank you for all that and I don't mind free being good (actually that's my favorite!) I just don't want it to be colossally wrong..
 
Here's the part that seems to fly over your head- Never did I say heavier flywheel is quicker, the point i'm making is that flywheel weight isn't a handicap when it makes the process more efficient. You say get the lightest flywheel you can find, I say you can get a flywheel that's too lite.

One thing a flywheel does is act as a heat sink for the clutch disc, as does the pressure plate ring. It's a given that something needs to slip for a bit or you will either bog the engine, blow the tires off, or break parts. If part of your launch plan includes controlled wheelspeed, some of that slipping duty is shared by both the clutch and the tires. Because in this case the clutch doesn't have to do all the slipping that's needed, you can get away with a smaller/lighter flywheel and clutch. And given that most all clutch development in the past for cars like ours have included wheel speed as part of their launch plan, we now have flywheels and clutches that are too lite to handle the thermal load of doing all the slipping necessary by themselves.

Ever see one of Rob Youngblood's flywheels? Pretty much the minimum amount of mass there to get the job done that it was designed for, and one thing that they are not designed for is to do ALL the slipping that's required for a dead hook radial friendly launch. Same goes for the typical aluminum flywheel with a bolt-in "heat shield". In that case you have two different materials that expand at different rates. They may be flat at room temp, but the shield gains temp quicker than it can pass it onto the aluminum. At some point as temps rise the shield begins to warp, which causes it to lose intimate contact with the aluminum, which in-turn further reduces the aluminum's ability to act as a heat sink. It's a downward spiral that damages the clutch. Thicker heat shields help reduce the warping, so do segmented inserts. Something that eliminates the warping altogether is one piece flywheels with enough mass to control the temperature rise. Since an aluminum flywheel without an insert isn't really practical, steel becomes a simple effective solution.

You can run a sintered iron disc with a 'tamer, I have for years. When you run radials, it makes logical sense. I currently have a Ram dual friction disc in the car just to gather some data, seems to be working with the radials. It's seen 8600 quite a bit, organic side hasn't objected yet. Steel flywheel, nod iron pressure ring.

Grant


I'm lost on how a steel flywheel is a better heat sink than aluminum.

The pressure ring in most pressure plates is aluminum as well. Less weight and less rotating mass.

I agree with running a sintered iron disc with the clutch tamer. The disc Jpar posted earlier is NOT sintered iron. The common name back in the 80's was vel-ve-touch or something similar. It won't take slipping for very long. And the tune up window between slipping and living and slipping and peeling the friction off the disc is very narrow. I could never find it. And I tried it with both Ram 6 and 3 puck discs. If you slipped it enough to make the car move and not kill parts, 6 runs was about max.

As for FW weight, I'll say it again. The less rotating inertia you can get, the higher you can be on the chip and still make the car leave. That means the average guy can get a catalog out and find the standard 15 pound FW. Mine weighed in at 11 pounds FWIW, which is what it was said to be.

You and I both know that most cars out there have chassis that are questionable...at best. Some are just junk. Most guys think a 3 way adjustable shock up front and a 9 way in the back is the cats ***. We also both know that the RPM limit at launch is RPM/IC/rotational inertia/available traction. That's about it for the simple math of it. And shock tuning ability.

If you have a 30 pound FW and you can set the chip at 5000 at the most, you can go to a 15 pound FW and move the chip up. How much requires some testing. But you can move it up because you reduced your rotational inertia by 50% (at least the FW part of the equation...the disc and PP also add to that) and the tire can now take the higher RPM. Now it takes less clutch manipulation to control clutch application etc. And, you have less RPM to pull back in first gear.


If someone is using FW weight to move the car, they either don't have the correct SLR or their gearing is just wrong. And probably too big of a tire. Seen that a bunch. 14x32 tires on a 3200 pound car running 10's is more than plenty.
 
I was at the track yesterday ... where there were at least 3 cars running regular bias tires, ex manifolds, leaving soft, and running mid-11’s.
Easy peasy.
:usflag:
For some of us its not as easy/controlled as it could be thats the reason for the clutch tamer.Id also be very interested as to approx what cam should be in this with a stick to help him leave softer.
 
For some of us its not as easy/controlled as it could be thats the reason for the clutch tamer.Id also be very interested as to approx what cam should be in this with a stick to help him leave softer.

The cam he has is small enough to be able to do it.
 
The cam he has is small enough to be able to do it.
^^^I was asking your thoughts on consistency with the clutch tamer? I noticed that I was just giving kind of a soft launch myself as I would just rev it up to about two grand or so and kind of try to soft drop the clutch. I can feel it was inconsistent as hell. To be able to have a consistent RPM and a consistent clutch drop seems Paramount to doing well in bracket racing. Since I'm more of a hobbyist I just don't get enough time at the track to perfect that. At any rate it seems like a simple enough concept and I'm eager to give it the old College try...
 
IMG_20190901_093727.jpg

The time slip on the left is my first round win in the stick shift class at the Mopar Nationals in Woodburn. And the second time slip is at PIR. The time slip from PIR was the fastest one that night. The time slip from Woodburn wasn't the fastest but I feel that a 12.5 is what the car does on a good average run. I never like to count on the car doing its fastest run.
The 1.9 60ft is the best I can do with no help... The new Nitto 555 I just put on are phenomenal on the street and do feel quite good on the strip as well. I dropped the tires down from 25 to 27 pounds on the street down to 18 to 20 on the strip. I drive around the wet box and back up close to it but I don't get in it and just do a small little chirp of a burnout just trying to dust the tires off and it just generally starts hopping quick and not liking it.
I have Time Slips with 1.6 60 foot's, but that was under a different configuration.
And it was with parts breaking aggression LOL....
 
This one of the F.A.S.T. cars that runs 10's, there is nothing soft about the way this car leaves. There are cars in this class that run in the 9's on G70 poly glass tires, there is more chassis tuning in the car then 75% of the full drag cars at the track. The T/A Challenger that was shown in the one video runs a soft-loc clutch and a pro shifted 833 trans and I am not positive but I have heard that most of the faster 4spd cars are running the same. Oh the Duster is an automatic trans.
in the air (2).jpg
 
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I was at the track yesterday ... where there were at least 3 cars running regular bias tires, ex manifolds, leaving soft, and running mid-11’s.
Easy peasy.
:usflag:
When I re-read this it seems like you say this like you're dangling the key to this easy formula?..
 
The more I look at your timeslips, the more I'm convinced the car is running about what it should with a fairly stock suspension and street tire. There may not be much more in it.
 
The more I look at your timeslips, the more I'm convinced the car is running about what it should with a fairly stock suspension and street tire. There may not be much more in it.


IDK about that. At 112 MPH he should be at least a 12 flat, even with his chassis and tires. That's probably 360-375 HP. I'm guessing on a 3300 pound car weight.

My car has been 12.42 at 109something...almost 110 and it was motoring from about 1000 feet on. And that was on 4 crap shocks, two of which were actually broke.


Edit: that was also on some home made slapped bars and a DOT tire.
 
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