Weird 904 to 408 magnum starter interference issue. Dakota starter won't fit? 64 push button trans. is that the problem?

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Johnny Mac

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
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Hey Friends,

In short, have a customer going rounds with starter motors. he has a 64 A body. with a 904 push button. our magnum blocked 408. His shop is absolutely destroying him on labor to attempt to randomly install random starter after starter motor. he has the dakota starter in hand now. won't go on. appears the shop may have ground on the block? but it also appears to have paint on it, so maybe that angle was there.

Is this just some mythical animal i haven't come across in the past?

maybe an odd duck starter motor in 64 only? is that an iron bell or something weird?

appreciate any input guys. thanks!!!!

pics below. web grabbed some LA and magnum bottoms...and then the others are from the customer.

I've had fullsized starers on magnums before....never ground a block. help please?

View attachment 1716336362View attachment 1716336363View attachment 1716336364View attachment 1716336365View attachment 1716336366
 
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The block likely has some bosses in it that need massaging. I have an 89 360 roller block that a mini and 904 hit the block

The clocking starters can help here too. Never used one
 
crackedback said:
The block likely has some bosses in it that need massaging. I have an 89 360 roller block that a mini and 904 hit the block

The clocking starters can help here too. Never used one
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That's possible I suppose. I have had a bunch of magnum blocks and pretty sure i even had a full size starter on one of them and never had to grind anything. New hemi's I have...but haven't seen this on a sb.
 
This might help.

Mancini Racing Mini Starter Terminal Conversion Kit

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65 Cuda 340 said:
Needs to go to another shop. . . .
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1000% agree, but he bough the engine from A reseller, he never called us until he was sunk, and furious, and wayyyyy to much in it.
 
I have seen this 2 times with 5.9 and mini starter, looks like if you can grind a small area on the block the starter will seat, it's hard to see the area when under the car with old man eyes, I chose to file the aluminum starter housing for clearance. I just have to remember this if I ever have to change the starter.
 
moparlvr166 said:
I have seen this 2 times with 5.9 and mini starter, looks like if you can grind a small area on the block the starter will seat, it's hard to see the area when under the car with old man eyes, I chose to file the aluminum starter housing for clearance. I just have to remember this if I ever have to change the starter.
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Just a random version of the magnum block that has a fatter casting?
It's just crazy to me we sell 300 of these a year, for 15 years, and first someone has brought it to our attention. I was Even wondering if there was an old cat iron 904 behind a poly motor he used or something.
 
slantsixdan said:
Go read this for the easy, low-dollar solution to this kind of no-fit starter problem.
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Thank you sir. Ya know, I think I Even have one of those on the shelf at my house. You have shown me that one before, and I don't know if I ever gathered it was a problem solver vs just a cool new mini starter option.
We'll give it a shot
 
I once had a problem with a mini-starter hitting the block but I never figured out what particular application that starter was for/from. I don't recall the year of the block either. It never happened again with several different OEM and aftermarket mini-starters. Like moparlvr166, I had to grind the block. It was around one of those open factory holes that lead up into the bellhousing area from the bottom at the back of the block. Tight fit with a grinder. I also ground on the starter. 360 LA block, later model 904 and TTI headers.
 
I have ran into that issue two times.
Both times it was a roller cam la block.
The alignment boss is interfering with the starter.
Grind it back about 1/4" parallel with the side of the block.

360-lt-side-b01-b3-jpg-3322710100.jpg
 
Yup, I had to grind the same area a bit on my 2001 Magnum block to get the mini starter to sit flat. I pulled the starter from a 1996 (?) Ram at a junkyard.
 
Johnny Mac said:
Just a random version of the magnum block that has a fatter casting?
It's just crazy to me we sell 300 of these a year, for 15 years, and first someone has brought it to our attention. I was Even wondering if there was an old cat iron 904 behind a poly motor he used or something.
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There never was a cast iron 904. First year for the 904 was 1960 and it was for a slant six only. First V8 904 was 1964, when the 273 was first introduced.

BTW, I had to grind on the 383 block in my 64 Polara when I put a lightweight starter on it. Can't remember what the interference was, but I think it was the factory adapter on the two electrical terminals.
 
I sure am glad I opened this thread before I installed this combination! That’s my power master mini starter, I also tried my old faithful junkyard, mini starter, and same issue. This is a Mopar performance magnum crate engine from 2004. 904 transmission.

image.jpg


image.jpg


image.jpg
 
Thanks all. Still surprised I have never ran into this, but clearly you guys have shown me it's a thing. Come to think of it, I have always had 727's besides a few stock setups.
 
I’ve had this problem with a 400 block. I had to grind the area circled in blue.


IMG_5331.jpeg


Also had to remove the copper cable attaching piece on a mini starter to make it work with my magnum. I just bolt the solenoid wire and heavy red battery wire straight to the starter now.

IMG_5332.png


(The oem version of this piece is what I took off the starter)
 
Johnny Mac said:
I think I Even have one of those on the shelf at my house. You have shown me that one before, and I don't know if I ever gathered it was a problem solver vs just a cool new mini starter option.
We'll give it a shot
Click to expand...

Please lettuce know if it worked, so I know whether and how many eggs to throw at my face.
 
I just had to do the EXACT grinding on a magnum block last week. Built a magnum based 408, And it WAS bolted to a 904. A 727 may have the starter slightly lower. It took all of 5 minutes maybe.
 
NC Engine Builder said:
I just had to do the EXACT grinding on a magnum block last week. Built a magnum based 408, And it WAS bolted to a 904. A 727 may have the starter slightly lower. It took all of 5 minutes maybe.
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Yeah, it's a real shame the customer didn't call us sooner. unfortunately the shop really took advantage of him. Sounds like it's common, and if it were sitting right in front of most of us, anyone else would have added some clearance to the block, and maybe a little to the starter, and "starter #1" would have been bolted on, and he'd been on his way. Appreciate the feedback.
 
slantsixdan said:
Please lettuce know if it worked, so I know whether and how many eggs to throw at my face.
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I'm sure you're good :) but i will do that. i greatly appreciate you reminding me about this. I literally bought one of these and have it sitting on the shelf from the last time you told me about it several years ago. lol. I offered to buy this customer one. hopefully he reports back!
 
Sheesh! When I went from 727 to 904 with my R3 block I ran into this! I figured it was just a race block deal :)
 
Johnny Mac said:
Yeah, it's a real shame the customer didn't call us sooner. unfortunately the shop really took advantage of him. Sounds like it's common, and if it were sitting right in front of most of us, anyone else would have added some clearance to the block, and maybe a little to the starter, and "starter #1" would have been bolted on, and he'd been on his way. Appreciate the feedback.
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Maybe the shop should be called outside one FABO members should avoid using?
 
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